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Paragon Warsuit Previewed Today


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#26
sitnam

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Overall, I think the Paragon is too small. It should be the size of a Sentinel (or Penitent Engine), and bear weapons too big for human hands to wield, e.g., reaper autocannons. Otherwise, why should I take it instead of a squad of multi-melta and/or heavy bolter-wielding Retributors, under an eviscerator chainsword-bearing Sister Superior's command?

I think you have the wrong perspective for it. It is supposed to be closer in terms to Aggressors/Terminators/Centurions in terms of function IMO, but in the form of a light mech

 

. You question about retributors doesnt really make a ton of sense. Why take a Dreadnought when you can take a devastator squad with a power fist sergant? 


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#27
Lemondish

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I'm not the biggest fan of these for two reasons.

The first is that the sisters line is clean/simple armour, but lots of ornamentation and religious trappings. These are too clean, and the cloth looks a little stiff so it doesn't help offset the clean and mechanical nature. I really liked the glass version, and would like to see more halos, candles, trim, etc... thankfully, rather simple conversion/kitbash stuff.

The second thing is just...walkers in the sisters range have always been something Ive associated with the punished and unredeemed. It feels incorrect in my mind to have sisters of battle manning walkers. Just a weird quirk of how I associate models in the range.

The one in the glass is in the video and likely serves as the 'Superior' for this unit.

Can't help but with the other hang up.

Edited by Lemondish, 23 January 2021 - 08:09 PM.


#28
Bjorn Firewalker

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I think you have the wrong perspective for it. It is supposed to be closer in terms to Aggressors/Terminators/Centurions in terms of function IMO, but in the form of a light mech


So it's a Sororitas Centurion, too big to replace Terminators, too small to replace Dreadnoughts? Again, I say the Paragon is the wrong size.
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#29
sitnam

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I think you have the wrong perspective for it. It is supposed to be closer in terms to Aggressors/Terminators/Centurions in terms of function IMO, but in the form of a light mech

So it's a Sororitas Centurion, too big to replace Terminators, too small to replace Dreadnoughts? Again, I say the Paragon is the wrong size.

I don’t think the size is really that off, especially if it fulfills it’s function. Given that Sisters don’t have the biological advantages of Astartes, a more extensive war suit makes sense for Sisters heavy infantry
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#30
MadEdric

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I’m actually getting an Invictor Warsuit vibe from the model. I’m really liking the look.
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#31
Silas7

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Any kind of walker with an exposed pilot is an absurd design in my eyes, idc if your a space marine or a guardsman. Just say no.
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#32
SkimaskMohawk

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I'm not the biggest fan of these for two reasons.

The first is that the sisters line is clean/simple armour, but lots of ornamentation and religious trappings. These are too clean, and the cloth looks a little stiff so it doesn't help offset the clean and mechanical nature. I really liked the glass version, and would like to see more halos, candles, trim, etc... thankfully, rather simple conversion/kitbash stuff.

The second thing is just...walkers in the sisters range have always been something Ive associated with the punished and unredeemed. It feels incorrect in my mind to have sisters of battle manning walkers. Just a weird quirk of how I associate models in the range.

The one in the glass is in the video and likely serves as the 'Superior' for this unit.

Can't help but with the other hang up.

Like yes, it is in the video, but not the parts that really made me like it. The wings, sororitas holding the sword and general pose of it in the stained glass all create that religious imagery thats at the core of the sob range. When it's translated to the table top version and only keeps the candles and a few purity seals it really loses a lot of that feel.

But as I said, it should be easy enough to up-religious the suits. More candles. More parchment. More torches. More incense burners. More iron halos. Maybe even sanguinary guard wings.

#33
ThePenitentOne

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I think if you stand it beside a PE it's almost exactly the same size or just a a bit taller. The feet on the PE pilot are just above the pivot point in suit's knee exactly where I expected the feet of the paragon pilot to be, and they are hanging limply, which puts them on angle that would allow them to fit into the thighs of a paragon suit. The position of the pilot's head and shoulders in relation to the suit's shoulders is the same too.

 

If someone with better photoshop skills would indulge us in a side by side Pargon and Penitent Engine it all makes sense.



#34
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@silas I 100% agree but it still looks really cool. 


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#35
Silas7

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I will say, I never thought I would buy a dreadknight but after seeing the pgtm conversion kit a few months ago I broke down. This could have the same potential.

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#36
Atrus

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My headcannon is the druver here doesnt have abody. Instead its one of those futurama head in a jar.

I disliethe model, but the datasheet may very well cause me to finish and possibly tweak my old walking heavy weapons platform id abandoned yonks ago.

#37
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I don't hate the Paragon Warsuit, but there are definitely some problems with it. The most obvious is the lack of pilot knee/warsuit thigh articulation. I would have preferred if the shoulders of the warsuit were much lower, allowing the pilot to turn her head and see around her. The way the head/helmet sit in a very small recessed cavity is just bad. If the upper portion of the warsuit were lowered and moved back, and if the legs were articulated in a way that worked both ergonomically and mechanically, I think it would be a great model.

Beyond the visual aesthetics, the concept of the Paragon Warsuit is a great addition to the Adepta Sororitas range, giving the Sisters pure Adepta Sororitas options for dealing with the smaller mecha units that other factions have (as opposed to having to draw upon the larger Ecclesiarchy choice of the Penitent Engine).

Overall, not a bad addition to the range, but the visual aesthetics could have been better. Regardless of those perceived failings, I'll have some of these in my Adepta Sororitas army [whenever I get around to expanding my all-lead Sisters force].


The above was posted in the NRBA discussion, but I figured this would be a better place to pick it up.

Looking at the models a bit more, there is actually one thing that pleases me greatly: GW didn't give these warsuits boob armour. The chest area is large enough to accommodate the needs of the pilots, but the warsuits themselves lack sexualization and might conceivably be used by any pilots. I'm certain these will be confined to the Adepta Sororitas, so I'm not suggesting that there should be other pilots. From an in-universe perspective, however, these warsuits look like they might be piloted by anyone, which is a good thing (from an engineering/design perspective). The lack of overt sexualization is also very good thing, showing a level of maturity and sophistication.

In the ongoing discussion comparing the Paragon Warsuit to the Penitent Engine/Mortifier, the models look comparable in terms of height. The silhouette of the top and the mechanism for the shoulders and arms looks quite similar, though the Paragon Warsuit is further decked out in considerable armour. From a lore perspective, the Penitent Engine/Mortifier is a final sanction for a heretic, a method for that poor soul to make up for their transgressions by dying in service to the Ecclesiarchy/Adepta Sororitas. The "pilots" of Penitent Engines and Mortifiers are intended to die and are, therefore, given no protection (not counting the sadistic protection afforded to the Anchorites). The pilots of Paragon Warsuits, meanwhile, are given considerable protection (if I ever model any of these, they'll have helmets). Where the Penitent Engine and Mortifier, devices of torture and punishment, look primitive and direct, the Paragon Warsuits are much more elegant and refined. This is fitting for the suit, used as it is by Adepta Sororitas who are still in the good graces of the Sisterhood and who are intended to live.

One thing I don't like about any of these models is that they are all top-heavy, with considerable weight focused in the area immediately behind the pilot's head, the "head" and shoulders of the engine/warsuit. This further reinforces the opinion I stated above in the quote where I would have preferred if the Paragon Warsuit's shoulders had been much lower.

The more that I've looked at the Paragon Warsuit throughout the day (including all of the jokes and memes I've been seeing), the more that it has grown on me. The basic framework is consistent with existing counterparts among the Imperium's armies (the Penitent Engine and the Nemesis Dreadknight foremost among them). The shoulder silhouette is consistent with other engines of war such as the Imperial Knights and Titans. The overall aesthetic is largely consistent with the Adepta Sororitas feel. I stand by my previous criticisms, but there's more about the model that I like now, or perhaps I'm now more willing to overlook those areas that I dislike.

What I'm wondering is when we'll get character versions. The "plain" appearance that some have complained about is inconsistent with the first image we saw of these - the stained glass piece. The other Adepta Sororitas images in that stained glass introduction were fairly consistent with the models. So I'm wondering if it's possible that we'll see officer versions of these warsuits, complete with wings, organs, sacristies, censers, etc.

And I'm waiting to see the conversions where the head/helmet is more protected, or where other weapon combinations are applied (big honking chainsword/eviscerator, maybe flails).

The one thing I'm hoping for is the ability to pose the arms in a variety of positions. The suit's arms and the pilot's arms are supposed to be positioned similarly, so the limitation, I think will be in the pilot arm options. I hope that the shoulders will allow for a bit of posing variation. Since these will be plastic, however, it shouldn't be too difficult to convert some different poses.
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#38
Lemondish

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Any kind of walker with an exposed pilot is an absurd design in my eyes, idc if your a space marine or a guardsman. Just say no.

 

Absurd design is exactly what 40k is all about, though!



#39
ThePenitentOne

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Here's a side by side:

 

Side By side

 

My crop on the PE catches 1-2 mm more of base which is why he looks like he's riding 1-2 mm higher. Fix the crop and its a match at all points of atriculation for both rider and suit.



#40
Elzender

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I've checked the video just now as yesterday I just saw the static pictures from the WarCom summary. I would like to point that one of the paragon suits in the video, the one with the pilot with half-bionic face, matches more closely the stained glass artwork. The fleur-de-lis in the chest plate, the (admittedly shorter) purity seal and Ecclesiarchy symbol at her waist, and the bigger halo + candles over her head. Granted, she does not have wings, but I would think that is mostly artistic license to more closely recreate religious paintings, with a saint or angel taking center stage. Other than that, I see no major differences between the art and the miniatures, and I feel the reason the latter look plainer is due to two factors:

- The pilot in the art is holding a sword and a relic in her hands, which is not compatible with actually piloting the suit (again, the art seems to aim to mimic religious paintings with important characters bearing relics).
- The suit in the art has a much narrow stance than the miniature, bringing all the details closer and reducing the visibility of some of the flat surfaces (mostly the legs, hidden behind the loincloth).

At any rate, I do agree that the miniature could use a bit more detailing on the flat surfaces, but that should not be too difficult to do by adding purity seals/parchments, sculpted/painted filigree or even some rosarius or censer tied to the extremities.

Edit: and I do agree that I would love to see HQ/character options for it! I have the feeling the slightly blingier suit in the video is supposed to be one, but if they deploy in units then it is most likely the squad leader.

Edited by Elzender, 24 January 2021 - 10:58 AM.

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#41
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#42
Jorin Helm-splitter

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I think you have the wrong perspective for it. It is supposed to be closer in terms to Aggressors/Terminators/Centurions in terms of function IMO, but in the form of a light mech

So it's a Sororitas Centurion, too big to replace Terminators, too small to replace Dreadnoughts? Again, I say the Paragon is the wrong size.

For me that's a selling point. It's good that sisters aren't lining up with marines. In general I think having the imperium fractions favor different unit types is good.

Guard - tanks
Marines - dreads
Sisters - walkers
Admech - all over the place.

#43
dracpanzer

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Oh great. Another marine light unit for Sisters. Hard pass.
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#44
sitnam

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Oh great. Another marine light unit for Sisters. Hard pass.

How is this Marine light? This doesn't really line up, size wise, with any primaris stuff. Bigger then Aggressors, smaller then Redemptors. Only thing that might be close is the classic Dreads, which are much bulkier. 

 

Edit: and I do agree that I would love to see HQ/character options for it! I have the feeling the slightly blingier suit in the video is supposed to be one, but if they deploy in units then it is most likely the squad leader.

 

It probably is just a squad leader, but I wouldnt be shocked if they released a blingier HQ model. I'd buy the hell out of it if they did


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#45
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What do people think it's stats will be?

 

- S5 T5 W6 A4 Ld8 Sv3+ or Sv2+...?


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#46
Maschinenpriester

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What do people think it's stats will be?

- S5 T5 W5 A4 Ld8 Sv3+ or Sv2+...?


I think they will be in squads of 3.

My guess of the stats would be:

M7 S5 T5 W4 A4 Ld 8 Sv3+

To me they don't look as durable as Terminators so that's why I guessed the 3+ save. And my guess on the wounds would be that they have the same amount as mortifiers, as the model has the same size.

I am definitely exited to see what special rules and strats they will get.

I am also hoping for the vehicle keyword, so they can shoot in CC.

#47
sitnam

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What do people think it's stats will be?

- S5 T5 W5 A4 Ld8 Sv3+ or Sv2+...?


I think they will be in squads of 3.

My guess of the stats would be:

M7 S5 T5 W4 A4 Ld 8 Sv3+

To me they don't look as durable as Terminators so that's why I guessed the 3+ save. And my guess on the wounds would be that they have the same amount as mortifiers, as the model has the same size.

I am definitely exited to see what special rules and strats they will get.

I am also hoping for the vehicle keyword, so they can shoot in CC.

 

I actually think the will be M9 and  Sv2+. They look fairly lithe, and Mortifiers are M9 right? I think Sv2+ because it seems better armored to my eyes, and the pilot is armored behind their mounting. Otherwise I agree on those stats. I really think they will have a 5+ invul too.

 

I kinda think they will be infantry, but I could be wrong. I really have convinced myself these are the SoB terminators


Edited by sitnam, 25 January 2021 - 04:56 AM.

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#48
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I love it! I want a squad of them, if they come in 3s as I think they might from how they've been shown off. But as they're the same size of Pengines or Moritifiers, we may get two to a box, which I am fine with, I really like the look and feel of these and they'll make a cool addition to my Valorous Heart. Only problem will be what cool models I'll have to sacrifice to get these into a list. 


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#49
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I'll take at least two. Although I'll use a bionic/scarred face or get some sort of faceplate. Spare parts from mortifier sarcophagus perhaps?

#50
SkimaskMohawk

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What do people think it's stats will be?

- S5 T5 W5 A4 Ld8 Sv3+ or Sv2+...?

I think they will be in squads of 3.

My guess of the stats would be:

M7 S5 T5 W4 A4 Ld 8 Sv3+

To me they don't look as durable as Terminators so that's why I guessed the 3+ save. And my guess on the wounds would be that they have the same amount as mortifiers, as the model has the same size.

I am definitely exited to see what special rules and strats they will get.

I am also hoping for the vehicle keyword, so they can shoot in CC.

Mortifiers have 5 wounds. I do think they'll stick to 3+ save since invul and ap mitigation are the main forms of durability in this faction and they'll probably have 5++ as a result.




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