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Paragon Warsuit Previewed Today


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#51
A.T.

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I'll take at least two. Although I'll use a bionic/scarred face or get some sort of faceplate. Spare parts from mortifier sarcophagus perhaps?

I've seen a photoshop with a mortifier faceplate and the sisters arms removed and replaced with vents - it actually works.



#52
sitnam

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I'll take at least two. Although I'll use a bionic/scarred face or get some sort of faceplate. Spare parts from mortifier sarcophagus perhaps?

I've seen a photoshop with a mortifier faceplate and the sisters arms removed and replaced with vents - it actually works.

That was probably my favorite alternate version I have seen, though in a bit fond of the exosuit idea myself. The only thing I want are robes on the arms to better simulate the SoV appearance

I really hope we get a Canoness version, as I’ll be slapping the fancy stained glass Excorcist head on her
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#53
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Oh great. Another marine light unit for Sisters. Hard pass.

How is this Marine light? This doesn't really line up, size wise, with any primaris stuff. Bigger then Aggressors, smaller then Redemptors. Only thing that might be close is the classic Dreads

Its a centurion with a sister in it. One of the first posts in this thread calls it a centurinun. Its 100% marine light and not even needed.

PEngines and Mortifiers at least embrace the penitent feel of the Sisters. Though maybe they'll be a second troops choice so you can play a Sisters army with just walkers and tanks. Look ma no Sisters!
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#54
Shandathe

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PEngines and Mortifiers at least embrace the penitent feel of the Sisters. Though maybe they'll be a second troops choice so you can play a Sisters army with just walkers and tanks. Look ma no Sisters!

 

 

The Paragon strikes me as embracing the zealous aspect, so I'm fine with that. Sadly, I think any non-HQ version is going to be adding more competition for Elite slots like the various Dreads and Invictors, or end up as Heavy Support like a Dreadknight.

 

My personal bet is Elite, with a hope for an HQ version because the Canonesses aren't going to just let the other Sisters have the fun melee toys without them. Admittedly I'm also still hoping Canonesses will at some point remember how to strap a jump pack on. ermm.gif


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#55
sitnam

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Oh great. Another marine light unit for Sisters. Hard pass.

How is this Marine light? This doesn't really line up, size wise, with any primaris stuff. Bigger then Aggressors, smaller then Redemptors. Only thing that might be close is the classic Dreads

Its a centurion with a sister in it. One of the first posts in this thread calls it a centurinun. Its 100% marine light and not even needed.

PEngines and Mortifiers at least embrace the penitent feel of the Sisters. Though maybe they'll be a second troops choice so you can play a Sisters army with just walkers and tanks. Look ma no Sisters!

 

 

That doesnt make any sense. How is it a Centurion? It looks nothing like it and doesnt seem to fulfill the more specialized roles of Centurions. Because both are in "warsuits"? The only other warsuits are Invictors, which are bigger then even casteferrum dreads.  By that same logic, every Sororitas unit is marine light, which I dont think is true

 

PE-engines and Mortifiers don't represent the Sororitas, they represent arch-heretics and failed Sororitas, respectively. They are aspects of the Ecclesiarchy, not the whole picture. The entire army isn't just penitent berserkers. They don't represent the noble, virtuous aspects of the sisters.


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#56
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PenEngines, Mortifiers and Repentia represent the Penitent side of the Sororitas. Of course that isn't all the Sisters are. Though Sisters commonly willingly join the Repentia for minor offenses.

They are fully devoted to a cult that espouses dying for the bigE and apparently find testing their faith this way a real thrill. Different strokes right?

I know it doesnt look JUST like a centurion. I know it isn't equipped JUST like a centurion. It has the Sisters aesthetic sure. But it is a living combatant using a big mech suit to enhance its ability to carry weapons and fight JUST like a centurion.

Mortifiers and PenEngines at least have embraced the penitent ideal and are on a death ride. That is the part that makes them different than dreadnoughts and their ilk.

I just dont see.any need for yet more walkers in the Sisters dex. Super Heavy Cathedral tanks, big hovering pulpit bastion shrines raining fire, a plastic repressor, an ecclesiarchy conclave box full of crusaders, DCA, frateris militia and a plastic imp priest kit, a Sororitas flyer? Sign me up.

Centurinuns? Still a hard pass for me.
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#57
ThePenitentOne

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I just dont see.any need for yet more walkers in the Sisters dex. Super Heavy Cathedral tanks, big hovering pulpit bastion shrines raining fire, a plastic repressor, an ecclesiarchy conclave box full of crusaders, DCA, frateris militia and a plastic imp priest kit, a Sororitas flyer? Sign me up.

 

 

The need is that we finally get a walker that can use order traits and acts of faith. That's the thing that makes this walker different than the penitent walkers and other war suits like the Invictor or Dreadknight: Faith. No other walker in the game gets it.

 

Don't get me wrong- I still want all the stuff on your list too; I might have even preferred some of those to the Paragon, sure. 

 

But I can't wait to field a Bloody Rose PE equivalent with a multi-melta and miracle dice. They said they're just getting started with sisters, and I think at least some of the things on your list are coming.



#58
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Lots of folks throwing around the word "need" as if that ever actually factors into the units an army is blessed with.

Sisters don't "need" anything - they're a solid fighting force in 9th edition with effective choices at nearly every slot, even if the breadth of those choices is lacking.

What they can benefit from is an expansion of choice and nuance - this achieves that.
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#59
sitnam

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Lots of folks throwing around the word "need" as if that ever actually factors into the units an army is blessed with.

Sisters don't "need" anything - they're a solid fighting force in 9th edition with effective choices at nearly every slot, even if the breadth of those choices is lacking.

What they can benefit from is an expansion of choice and nuance - this achieves that.

 

Might not need them, but It'd be nice to have a flyer and super heavy.


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#60
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Lots of folks throwing around the word "need" as if that ever actually factors into the units an army is blessed with.

Sisters don't "need" anything - they're a solid fighting force in 9th edition with effective choices at nearly every slot, even if the breadth of those choices is lacking.

What they can benefit from is an expansion of choice and nuance - this achieves that.

I agree overall, I'm just left wondering on the effectiveness. I think it's safe to assume how GW went about it is controversial.


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#61
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On the assumption that it is a vehicle rather than infantry (I doubt GW want the Hospitaller bringing these back) it will be another way to get heavy weapons on the table that dont suffer movement penalties which is nice and verly likely they will be a source of D2 or higher melee attacks to deal with the new 2 wound baseline for marines.

Given the presence of a celestian helmet on of the paragon suits I would guess the unit is an elites option which will be a bit of a pain because the elites section of the army is already overloaded whilst the Fast, Heavy and Troop slots are lacking for diversity (they are redeemed by all the units in there being good or awesome)

I can see them coming in with Centurion like combat stats (S5 T5 W4 A4) but possible having a move of 7" and a Sv of 3+



#62
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You really want these things to have higher damage than 2. The death guard will skew the meta against d2 if they're strong (and all the top competitive people think they are). If these are d2 then they compete with repentia for a lot of the same targets and being in the same slot.

#63
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You really want these things to have higher damage than 2. The death guard will skew the meta against d2 if they're strong (and all the top competitive people think they are). If these are d2 then they compete with repentia for a lot of the same targets and being in the same slot.


It is okay if they compete against Repentia. They bring their own durable delivery system and look capable enough to operate without support - something I wouldn't say is the common approach for Repentia.

I'm extremely curious to see what special rules they'll have as that seems to define these new units more and more.

#64
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You really want these things to have higher damage than 2. The death guard will skew the meta against d2 if they're strong (and all the top competitive people think they are). If these are d2 then they compete with repentia for a lot of the same targets and being in the same slot.

 

I would like it to be more than 2 damage but the existence of 2W baseline troops all over the place and one specific army with a 2W troops and a special rule that turns 2 damage to 1 it means we will likely be seeing more weapons with a D2 profile in the coming years to actually give the Death Guard special rule some value whilst also providing a good tool for taking on all the other 2W marine armies.



#65
SkimaskMohawk

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You really want these things to have higher damage than 2. The death guard will skew the meta against d2 if they're strong (and all the top competitive people think they are). If these are d2 then they compete with repentia for a lot of the same targets and being in the same slot.


I would like it to be more than 2 damage but the existence of 2W baseline troops all over the place and one specific army with a 2W troops and a special rule that turns 2 damage to 1 it means we will likely be seeing more weapons with a D2 profile in the coming years to actually give the Death Guard special rule some value whilst also providing a good tool for taking on all the other 2W marine armies.

Well marines spam 2 damage a ton and that's...a third of the factions right there lol. Death guard are going to get plenty of value regardless of new units or not.

@lemondish if the paragons are in consideration against repentia then that'll be good, but competition against them right now really just means outclassed. There's not much that can match a bloody rose repentia unit on stratagem for damage output, and for only 140~ points.

But, now that I'm thinking about it more, these will probably the defensive version of walkers. 3+ and invul that can be modified on a t5, 5 wound model paired with the imagifier could form a pretty resilient unit if you can go up to 5.

#66
ThePenitentOne

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Can't wait to use a MD 6 to hit with a MM and burn the strat to use it again for damage.

 

Or to stand with the Imagifier who has the strat to give two buffs; PE's and Morties don't get <order> auras, but these walkers will.



#67
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I feel like that's a waste of a 6 lol, use any 3s for faith and fury.

#68
sitnam

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Can't wait to use a MD 6 to hit with a MM and burn the strat to use it again for damage.

Or to stand with the Imagifier who has the strat to give two buffs; PE's and Morties don't get <order> auras, but these walkers will.

I think the interaction with SoB army rules will help separate these out from PE's. I have the feeling PE's will do more damage overall, but the Paragons will be more versatile and actually synergize with the army. The real question: will they have the infantry keyword. If they do, Hospitallers let's just got a huge boost

Edited by sitnam, 27 January 2021 - 04:43 PM.

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#69
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If they are infantry, then they'd benefit from the invul boosts as well as the hospitalier healing and reviving. But, if theyre vehicles, then they can move and shoot their main guns with no penalty and shoot while in combat.

I feel that the infantry version would be better as theyd get more mileage with their weapons compared to just hitting better.

#70
Purifying Tempest

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Can't wait to use a MD 6 to hit with a MM and burn the strat to use it again for damage.

Or to stand with the Imagifier who has the strat to give two buffs; PE's and Morties don't get <order> auras, but these walkers will.

I think the interaction with SoB army rules will help separate these out from PE's. I have the feeling PE's will do more damage overall, but the Paragons will be more versatile and actually synergize with the army. The real question: will they have the infantry keyword. If they do, Hospitallers let's just got a huge boost

 

 

Just to add on here:

 

Penitent Engine: No relevant traits

Mortifiers: As PEngine + Adepta Sororitas trait

Repentia: As Mortifiers + <ORDER>

Paragon: I imagine will be as Repentia + Sacred Rites

 

Compared to the other walkers, these should have Order + Sacred Rites over them. - Edited for clarity

Compared to the Repentia it'll have resiliency + Sacred Rites - at a premium in price, but that's a story for later in time when there's more info smile.png

 

Edit - it'll also have access to a lot of heavy weaponry it seems (possibly 2 Heavy Bolters + MM + specialized melee weapon).  So while the Repentia charge headlong into the fray and create a mess, these seem to be more of a glide behind that initial charge, softening up strategic targets before charging into whatever hole was created by the penitent.


Edited by Purifying Tempest, 27 January 2021 - 05:44 PM.

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#71
Banjulhu

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Repentia currently get access to sacred rites as its the rule you get for being 100% church/sisters and they have the rule in their entry


Edited by Banjulhu, 27 January 2021 - 07:14 PM.

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#72
Lemondish

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@lemondish if the paragons are in consideration against repentia then that'll be good, but competition against them right now really just means outclassed. There's not much that can match a bloody rose repentia unit on stratagem for damage output, and for only 140~ points.

But, now that I'm thinking about it more, these will probably the defensive version of walkers. 3+ and invul that can be modified on a t5, 5 wound model paired with the imagifier could form a pretty resilient unit if you can go up to 5.


Certainly true about the value found in Repentia, but we can't deny that they're certainly one dimensional. They aren't going to be holding a point any time soon, and they really shouldn't, considering their fluff and crunch is all about martyring themselves to repent. They're just such a damn well designed unit and are still extremely efficient even after the 9th edition stat nerf and the recent points bump.

That resilience is exactly what I'm talking about as far as their niche goes. Trade the sheer deadly power of a Repentia bomb for something with longevity and it won't matter if the weapon profiles end up similar or identical.

#73
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Repentia currently get access to sacred rites as its the rule you get for being 100% church/sisters and they have the rule in their entry

Now I swear I read their entry just for accuracy - but the mind believes what it wants to believe I suppose!  They do have Sacred Rites, that is for sure - but the Paragon still will likely have <ORDER> and Sacred Rites over the other "similar" units in the codex: Mortifier and Penitent Engine.

 

The range of buffs available to it will likely be similar to the Repentia, but it'll probably have a stat line similar to an Anchorite with a better selection of weapons to strap on.  <ORDER> on these alone is going to be REALLY interesting.  Bloody Rose and Valorous Heart will remain solid choices - but Argent Shroud (Advance and shoot) and maybe even Sacred Rose (Exploding 6's on bolt weapons stratagem) seem to be able to buff these models pretty well.



#74
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No way this has infantry keyword.
Either vehicle/walker, or monster imo.

#75
sitnam

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No way this has infantry keyword.
Either vehicle/walker, or monster imo.

I won’t be shocked if it ends up being a vehicle/walker/monster, but I just have a feeling these could be infantry, despite their size. They are in this in between size between Centurions and Invictors

I kinda wander what the lore introduction for Paragons will be. Is it a classic case of “these have always been around”, or could it be an example of Cawl extending his innovations to more then just Primaris.

Kind of hope it is the latter. It’d be neat if Sororitas and Militarum started getting some new designs, in lore terms

Edited by sitnam, 29 January 2021 - 04:29 AM.

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