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[AT] Loyalist Legios


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#101
Noserenda

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If there's limited stock it must be because all the bloody YouTubers seem to have them.


Yeah, there is a flood of reviews/builds/painting guides suddenly. I appreciate GW doing 'new' media. But it's so inconsistent and ad-hoc.

I also question how much good it does.

 

The two masterfully painted Warmasters built with better posing and showing off the options clearly pushed it right up my "to buy" list, and i always check reviews for a book before i buy it. Unfortunately disability does not give me the budget to just throw money at things on faith anymore, and tbh some of the GW/FW previews have been pretty poor. 


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#102
Lord Marshal

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If there's limited stock it must be because all the bloody YouTubers seem to have them.


Yeah, there is a flood of reviews/builds/painting guides suddenly. I appreciate GW doing 'new' media. But it's so inconsistent and ad-hoc.

I also question how much good it does.

 

 

Probably a fair bit. It's almost-free advertising and almost none of them are going to endanger their supply of free stuff by giving an outright negative review of the product.


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#103
Brother Adelard

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I've seen four today. Richard Gray, Vince Venturella, Colin Ward and Henry Steele.

I think Henry's is my favourite.
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#104
Marshal Rohr

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If there's limited stock it must be because all the bloody YouTubers seem to have them.

Yeah, there is a flood of reviews/builds/painting guides suddenly. I appreciate GW doing 'new' media. But it's so inconsistent and ad-hoc.
I also question how much good it does.

Probably a fair bit. It's almost-free advertising and almost none of them are going to endanger their supply of free stuff by giving an outright negative review of the product.

They’re actually allowed to negatively review them as long as they don’t say ‘pirate this’. The main condition of the pre-release is that you produce a video or review of it. One of the youtubers explained how it works on a stream I listened to the other day.

Your opinion is important, and someone posting here probably does care what you think. You should go tell them. Remember that it really hurts to come up with an idea you care about and have no one else care. Go care about something and tell them what you think. Now. Think of what it would have meant to you when you were young.

 

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#105
Reclusiarch Krieg

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I'm completely opposite. Seeing "premiere" models painted to masterclass levels like Richard Gray's before the actual stuff hits the shelves and/or sometimes even before preorder starts, puts a complete and total damper on my eagerness to buy and paint myself, even if I'm amazed by the upcoming model.

It's happened with the Sphiranx, it happened with the new Ogroid (non Silver Tower one), it happened with several 40k releases and it just happened with this one as well. Immediately gone from "I gotta get it ASAP" to "Eh, sometime down the road, if it's available, maybe?". And it's not like you can really avoid those, they get shared in every single hobby FB group and Discord server as soon as they pop up.

It basically has me go from basically FOMO to "I've already missed out, great things have already been done with this, this is a hand me down toy somebody had weeks up to a month to play with ahead of everyone else and I could only do a passing attempt, so why bother".

And I know there's at least several people in my circles who have the exact same reaction.


Edited by Reclusiarch Krieg, 11 April 2021 - 11:11 AM.

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#106
matcap86

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I'm completely opposite. Seeing "premiere" models painted to masterclass levels like Richard Gray's before the actual stuff hits the shelves and/or sometimes even before preorder starts, puts a complete and total damper on my eagerness to buy and paint myself, even if I'm amazed by the upcoming model.

It's happened with the Sphiranx, it happened with the new Ogroid (non Silver Tower one), it happened with several 40k releases and it just happened with this one as well. Immediately gone from "I gotta get it ASAP" to "Eh, sometime down the road, if it's available, maybe?". And it's not like you can really avoid those, they get shared in every single hobby FB group and Discord server as soon as they pop up.

It basically has me go from basically FOMO to "I've already missed out, great things have already been done with this, this is a hand me down toy somebody had weeks up to a month to play with ahead of everyone else and I could only do a passing attempt, so why bother".

And I know there's at least several people in my circles who have the exact same reaction.

 

That's an amazing and utterly alien reaction to me. So your hobby fulfilment is dependent on being one of the first / best to do something with a model? (note not ragging on you, if that's how it works for you, you do you!) For me it's the opposite: I was kind of on the fence on the warmaster until I saw Steele's and Gray's version which really brought out it's potential. After that I immediately got one.


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#107
SkimaskMohawk

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I'm completely opposite. Seeing "premiere" models painted to masterclass levels like Richard Gray's before the actual stuff hits the shelves and/or sometimes even before preorder starts, puts a complete and total damper on my eagerness to buy and paint myself, even if I'm amazed by the upcoming model.

It's happened with the Sphiranx, it happened with the new Ogroid (non Silver Tower one), it happened with several 40k releases and it just happened with this one as well. Immediately gone from "I gotta get it ASAP" to "Eh, sometime down the road, if it's available, maybe?". And it's not like you can really avoid those, they get shared in every single hobby FB group and Discord server as soon as they pop up.

It basically has me go from basically FOMO to "I've already missed out, great things have already been done with this, this is a hand me down toy somebody had weeks up to a month to play with ahead of everyone else and I could only do a passing attempt, so why bother".

And I know there's at least several people in my circles who have the exact same reaction.


That's an amazing and utterly alien reaction to me. So your hobby fulfilment is dependent on being one of the first / best to do something with a model? (note not ragging on you, if that's how it works for you, you do you!) For me it's the opposite: I was kind of on the fence on the warmaster until I saw Steele's and Gray's version which really brought out it's potential. After that I immediately got one.

It depends on what you want a model release for. If it's to start an army, then these masterclasses can tend to help people appreciate the models better than gw's schemes.

But for one-off painting projects as a treat, to see Richard Grey just dominate on the day of pre-order it can lead to feelings of inadequacy. I know on some of the big painting groups on Facebook you often see stuff about comparing paintjobs to these artists and how to be self motivated, so the phenomena of getting burnt out by fantastic paintjobs exists.

#108
Redcomet

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I'm completely opposite. Seeing "premiere" models painted to masterclass levels like Richard Gray's before the actual stuff hits the shelves and/or sometimes even before preorder starts, puts a complete and total damper on my eagerness to buy and paint myself, even if I'm amazed by the upcoming model.

It's happened with the Sphiranx, it happened with the new Ogroid (non Silver Tower one), it happened with several 40k releases and it just happened with this one as well. Immediately gone from "I gotta get it ASAP" to "Eh, sometime down the road, if it's available, maybe?". And it's not like you can really avoid those, they get shared in every single hobby FB group and Discord server as soon as they pop up.

It basically has me go from basically FOMO to "I've already missed out, great things have already been done with this, this is a hand me down toy somebody had weeks up to a month to play with ahead of everyone else and I could only do a passing attempt, so why bother".

And I know there's at least several people in my circles who have the exact same reaction.

That's an amazing and utterly alien reaction to me. So your hobby fulfilment is dependent on being one of the first / best to do something with a model? (note not ragging on you, if that's how it works for you, you do you!) For me it's the opposite: I was kind of on the fence on the warmaster until I saw Steele's and Gray's version which really brought out it's potential. After that I immediately got one.
It depends on what you want a model release for. If it's to start an army, then these masterclasses can tend to help people appreciate the models better than gw's schemes.

But for one-off painting projects as a treat, to see Richard Grey just dominate on the day of pre-order it can lead to feelings of inadequacy. I know on some of the big painting groups on Facebook you often see stuff about comparing paintjobs to these artists and how to be self motivated, so the phenomena of getting burnt out by fantastic paintjobs exists.

One of my oldest friends is a world class painter, with dozens of trophies to his name, and sometimes seeing him finish a project I am working on feels like a kick in the teeth, other times a motivation.
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#109
SkimaskMohawk

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I'm completely opposite. Seeing "premiere" models painted to masterclass levels like Richard Gray's before the actual stuff hits the shelves and/or sometimes even before preorder starts, puts a complete and total damper on my eagerness to buy and paint myself, even if I'm amazed by the upcoming model.

It's happened with the Sphiranx, it happened with the new Ogroid (non Silver Tower one), it happened with several 40k releases and it just happened with this one as well. Immediately gone from "I gotta get it ASAP" to "Eh, sometime down the road, if it's available, maybe?". And it's not like you can really avoid those, they get shared in every single hobby FB group and Discord server as soon as they pop up.

It basically has me go from basically FOMO to "I've already missed out, great things have already been done with this, this is a hand me down toy somebody had weeks up to a month to play with ahead of everyone else and I could only do a passing attempt, so why bother".

And I know there's at least several people in my circles who have the exact same reaction.

That's an amazing and utterly alien reaction to me. So your hobby fulfilment is dependent on being one of the first / best to do something with a model? (note not ragging on you, if that's how it works for you, you do you!) For me it's the opposite: I was kind of on the fence on the warmaster until I saw Steele's and Gray's version which really brought out it's potential. After that I immediately got one.
It depends on what you want a model release for. If it's to start an army, then these masterclasses can tend to help people appreciate the models better than gw's schemes.

But for one-off painting projects as a treat, to see Richard Grey just dominate on the day of pre-order it can lead to feelings of inadequacy. I know on some of the big painting groups on Facebook you often see stuff about comparing paintjobs to these artists and how to be self motivated, so the phenomena of getting burnt out by fantastic paintjobs exists.
One of my oldest friends is a world class painter, with dozens of trophies to his name, and sometimes seeing him finish a project I am working on feels like a kick in the teeth, other times a motivation.

Seeing the process and wip roughness can really help with motivation, but just getting hit with a fully painted project can do the opposite for sure lol.
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#110
Reclusiarch Krieg

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But for one-off painting projects as a treat, to see Richard Grey just dominate on the day of pre-order it can lead to feelings of inadequacy. I know on some of the big painting groups on Facebook you often see stuff about comparing paintjobs to these artists and how to be self motivated, so the phenomena of getting burnt out by fantastic paintjobs exists.

Yup, pretty much this. My primary hobby interest is collecting / painting, playing comes secondary. When you think about getting this model:

maxresdefault.jpg

 

 

and the official GW paintjob is already setting the bar pretty high

Zrzut%20ekranu%202021-03-15%20o%2019.23.

 

then to want to do a flashy Tzeentchian version and to see this on the premiere day already done, is pretty much soulcrushing.

a4ed5278.jpg

It's not even about having to top the best paintjobs, but the conjunction of "I can't even start to compete" and "I've not even received the package yet and they've already done THIS". It's also the perception of unfairness of "why the hell somebody gets this stuff a month early" and the fact that some of the top artists immediately start flaunting these models as soon as the NDAs are off and they do it with pretty disgusting faux modesty where they show a competition level display style painted model that pretty obviously had 100+ hours go into NMM alone and they claim "oh, it's just a decent tabletop+ job, nothing much".

It all leaves a really bad taste in my mouth and dissuades me from the purchase. It's been over a year for the Sphiranx and I'm still not over that enough to finally buy and paint one myself. And I really wanted to when I saw the preorder teasers.


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#111
Reclusiarch Krieg

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There's also a purely artistic angle in that reaction. I had an idea that I wanted to express. I wanted to create something - and let's not pretend, we do it partially for personal satisfaction and partially for the serotonin boost of praise. Somebody though went ahead and expressed it better than I could, before I could even attempt a shot at it, getting all the praise. Why should I bother then? I would get compared to their work and get told mine's inferior, for all that work.

If I had a fair shot at topping theirs, or we could work from the same level with no disadvantage on my part, I could try and compete or "do just as well". But this way it's as if they've stolen my idea and made it theirs, before I could even do a thing about it.

Artistically, it's almost like seeing your ex lover being head over heels with the person they've left you for, while that person looks and carries themselves like your much hotter sibling. Similar looks, similar clothes, but they've really obviously put thousands of hours of work into their body, style and attitude, while you've had to deal with life and physical/mental health issues they apparently didn't have.

You can rationalize it, you can get over it, but it's still a kick in the teeth. Not only your ego, but the perception this being a cruel joke, an injustice of some sort. As if somebody was flaunting that in your face. The fact that the person is cool and nice and you're glad the lover is happy helps only so much. It's the same with the art - the top painter can be a nice person, but they got the mini "unfairly", way head of time, only due to their backstage connections with the model company.

It feels way better, for example, when you know they were painting a commission for a box cover - because that has to be done ahead of time and it's a fair business arrangement.


Edited by Reclusiarch Krieg, 11 April 2021 - 02:36 PM.

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#112
Marshal Rohr

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Louise works for GW. She was always going to have access to it before anyone else.
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Your opinion is important, and someone posting here probably does care what you think. You should go tell them. Remember that it really hurts to come up with an idea you care about and have no one else care. Go care about something and tell them what you think. Now. Think of what it would have meant to you when you were young.

 

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#113
Brother Adelard

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One of the things I like about this practice, especially with things like Titans which are notoriously prone to build errors if you aren't careful, (I'm looking at you Reaver toes, shin armour and Warlord Knees) by listening to the advance builders I can learn a little bit about the build process before I start my own. I have a pretty strong idea of how I will build one of these things, having built 13 Titans, a load of knights as well as 3 28mm Knights, but even a little bit of insight before I crack open the box on what to look out for is going to be useful. 

Because I got into AT only after the starter came out last year, I could get all of that knowledge from the AT group and learn from other people's mistakes. I knew therefore before I built my first Warlord to be extra careful with the knees. But with a brand new release like this, we're all going in blind, so even a little bit of extra information is going to be useful.


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#114
matcap86

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Richard Gray has a nice review up, including magnets, butt cannons, different head sizes, build difficulties etc. https://www.youtube....nel=RichardGray


Edited by matcap86, 11 April 2021 - 05:37 PM.

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#115
Rik Lightstar

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All the guys who get these early are doing it explicitly as a business arrangement.

They have contracts with NDAs, deadlines, etc.

If they don't get stuff done on time they risk getting cut from the list.

While they don't get paid financially in a direct sense by GW, they do drive traffic to their channels through their previews which directly generates income for them.

Also, the fact they're seeming to add more to the list of early reviewers and even promoting some of them via the Warhammer Community site* indicates that GW think its a successful project.

*Andy Wardle got a full article about his Lumineth Lord this week which outright mentions his Cult of Paint channel.

I think this is potentially their route instead of replacing Duncan and his painting guides directly.

Rik
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The Codex Astartes: Taking Away The Freedom Of The Astartes To Pigeonhole Themselves, 
And Restricting Them To Supreme Flexibility Since M31
.


#116
Reclusiarch Krieg

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That's a shame then, I might have to find a way to block those types of articles.



#117
Hellex_The_Thanatar

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The warmaster really, just really highlights the absolute shame that is how gw did the imperial knight kits. That pose is absolutely phenomenal from Gray. His is utterly shockingly amazing to look at.
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#118
Brother Adelard

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I think it more highlights how much technology and attitudes at GW have moved on. Listening to Jes talk about the first Knight kit, its clear that it was seen as a risky project pushing the limits of what they could do at the time.

Without the Knight, we probably wouldn't have AT.
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#119
Noserenda

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Yeah the Knight was coming out against some very stiff opposition inside the company and was excellent even with the fixed legs.


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#120
Reclusiarch Krieg

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Yeah the Knight was coming out against some very stiff opposition inside the company and was excellent even with the fixed legs.

And still doable as a conversion material for reposing, especially with some 3rd party knee parts.



#121
Brother Adelard

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Yeah the Knight was coming out against some very stiff opposition inside the company and was excellent even with the fixed legs.

And still doable as a conversion material for reposing, especially with some 3rd party knee parts.

Yeah, it's pretty doable, you just need to be fairly brave with the jewellery saw!

O787td6.jpggallery_38474_6916_6036.jpg


#122
Noserenda

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Oh yeah the knees are easy enough to convert, deliberately so i suspect as there is a decent gap for a modelling knife/saw in there that there didnt need to be. Jes Goodwin knows his craft even when hes not being allowed full reign ;) 


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