Alpharius

[b1soul]

This sounds really good and I'm not even an AL fan. Just really interesting expansion of the XXth built on FW fluff...

[DarkChaplain]

Looks like we're still not getting an answer about

The stolen Primarch Project materials from Deliverance Lost, that Alpharius/Omegon pocketed for themselves while handing only the tainted samples to Horus/Fabius.

Not to mention what happened between Omegon-Alpharius and Guilliman at Eskrador.

 

A bit disappointed about that, but at least the overall spoilers sound pretty good. More eager to read this one than Mortis, actually.

[mc warhammer]

For some reason Omegon was referred to in the plural initially when Alpharius first meets him, I’ve not worked that out yet

triplet theory confirmed j/k

 

though...

 

it would allow for adb's primarch pod scene with a multilimbed occupant of the xx pod to still work. or that rather than being twins or triplets, alpharius repawns? like a hydra head, but alsoa bit too much like vulcan

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by mc warhammer

[RikuEru]

Is there still some ambiguity left or is it definitive fact? (Or as close as it can get to from an in-universe point of view)

[mc warhammer]

apparently it starts and ends by saying

"this is a lie"

 

so...maybe?

[Marshal Rohr]

He straight up said on Twitter he can’t believe they let him do it, so take that as you will.

[USNCenturion]

makes the whole Alpha prefix thing make sense, retroactively anyways.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Crix

[StrangerOrders]

apparently it starts and ends by saying

"this is a lie"

 

so...maybe?

Wait a sec...

 

If you say it is a lie and then end by saying it is a lie....

 

Doesnt that make the fact that it is a lie a lie and therefore true?

 

Very Alpharius....

 

 

makes the whole Alpha prefix thing make sense, retroactively anyways.

Eh.... It actually comes from Extermination, FW Book 3.

 

All Legions were an Alpha Legion at some point, no joke.

 

Very Alpharius. 

 

Jokes aside though, it just means that a Legion has advanced beyond the lab-testing phase to the point of initial induction but has yet to be cleared to be put into full production. The Alpha Legion never officially moved beyond that point until Alpharius was found and a full Legion suddenly came out of the woodwork.

[battle captain corpus]

I'm sorry but even if 50% of these spoilers are correct (I don't doubt them!) then I'm out. There's no way I'm buying or reading this. It just genuinely sounds like an author trying to shoe horn his own concept into an established storyline (Horus being the 1st primarch discovered etc) in a cack handed way to draw attention to his own poorly conceived work.

Kudos to those that can stomach it though.

 

BCC

[Karhedron]

I rather like the idea of the story being told by Alpharius himself and being a mix of truths, secrets and lies. It's then left to the reader to try and make sense of it all.

 

If overused, it would be really annoying but for a single book about the most duplicitous Primarch, I could see it working if done well.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Karhedron

[SkimaskMohawk]

I'm sorry but even if 50% of these spoilers are correct (I don't doubt them!) then I'm out. There's no way I'm buying or reading this. It just genuinely sounds like an author trying to shoe horn his own concept into an established storyline (Horus being the 1st primarch discovered etc) in a cack handed way to draw attention to his own poorly conceived work.

Kudos to those that can stomach it though.

 

BCC

Must have hated legion too lol

[Ingo Pech]

I'm sorry but even if 50% of these spoilers are correct (I don't doubt them!) then I'm out. There's no way I'm buying or reading this. It just genuinely sounds like an author trying to shoe horn his own concept into an established storyline (Horus being the 1st primarch discovered etc) in a cack handed way to draw attention to his own poorly conceived work.

Kudos to those that can stomach it though.

 

BCC

Some of what was mentioned in the spoilers regarding Alpharius´ past comes more or less from the FW book "Extermination". So it´s not Brooks´ fundamental idea.

 

"...Alpharius alone, unfinished in some way, had been spared or at least some part of him had remained behind though gravely injured when the rest of the Primarchs were scattered across the stars by unknown hands. Here, in the shadow of Terra, he grew and was nurtured alone of the Primarchs by the Emperor himself, his existence a jealously guarded secret even from those closest to the Emperor, lest the dark fates move against him. Upon his maturity he became the Emperor´s own secret hand and his greatest shield, until he was at last parted from his father, his destiny to fulfil. These accounts are lies.

[animal310]

Is there still some ambiguity left or is it definitive fact? (Or as close as it can get to from an in-universe point of view)

 

 

apparently it starts and ends by saying

"this is a lie"

 

so...maybe?

 

That's not really wholly accurate. 

 

The whole book apart from the Prologue and Epilogue is told in the first person by Alpharius. The Prologue and Epilogue are told in the first person by Omegon. The Prologue starts "I am Alpharius. This is a lie." The Epilogue ends with "I am Alpharius. This was a lie." 

 

So it depends what the narrator is lying about, the account or his correct name. The change from is to was is also interesting although the context in which each are said can also explain this. And this is also all Alpha Legion so you can of course choose not to believe the story.

 

I'm sorry but even if 50% of these spoilers are correct (I don't doubt them!) then I'm out. There's no way I'm buying or reading this. It just genuinely sounds like an author trying to shoe horn his own concept into an established storyline (Horus being the 1st primarch discovered etc) in a cack handed way to draw attention to his own poorly conceived work.

Kudos to those that can stomach it though.

 

BCC

 

You are of course free to disagree or not like what is written (although I would recommend waiting until you have actually read it), there are many things in the Horus Heresy series which I think have been handled poorly, but this is not one of them.

 

However to say that this is the author "trying to shoe horn his own concept in a cack handed way to draw attention to his own poorly conceived work" is fundamentally wrong. As I explained above this book is heavily influenced by the pre-eminent background writer for the whole setting. 

 

Mike seems to have taken a lot of inspiration from Alan Bligh’s work in Extermination, something I think other writers in the series should really have paid more attention to. Alan, for me was the master when it came to the Horus Heresy. Whatever background work Mike did it has really paid off here and he has done a fantastic job.

Edited January 26, 2021 by animal310

[mc warhammer]

thank you for the context, animal310

 

can you give some to:

 

the idea that alpharius' ability to blend in with astartes is more to do with an innate ability similar to corax's rather than him being the tiny primarch?

 

if it is, then that's my head canon that i've discussed here a few times confirmed.

Edited January 26, 2021 by mc warhammer

[animal310]

thank you for the context, animal310

 

can you give some to:

 

the idea that alpharius' ability to blend in with astartes is more to do with an innate ability similar to corax's rather than him being the tiny primarch?

 

if it is, then that's my head canon that i've discussed here a few times confirmed.

Yes, that is entirely correct. It is his gift, he can change the perception of himself, so that he can blend in.

[mc warhammer]

i dig it. and it makes sense

[battle captain corpus]

Hey, agree to disagree guys. It’s the Internet after all. Personally that’s just how I feel.

 

And no, I did really enjoy Legion. That’s a great book written by a great author. But from what I gather this doesn’t appeal to me or how I feel Alpha Legion always have been. But hey like I said, it’s the Internet. ;)

 

BCC

[SkimaskMohawk]

Hey, agree to disagree guys. It’s the Internet after all. Personally that’s just how I feel.

 

And no, I did really enjoy Legion. That’s a great book written by a great author. But from what I gather this doesn’t appeal to me or how I feel Alpha Legion always have been. But hey like I said, it’s the Internet. ;)

 

BCC

But the entire book is an author trying to shoe horn his own concept into an established storyline (two primarchs for one legion, alpha legion being secretly loyal) in a cack handed way to draw attention to his own poorly conceived work. The entire book builds to the reveal that surprise, there's two primarchs. Oh and thet know all about the heresy and it's actually what the emperor would want them to do so they're good guys.

[battle captain corpus]

Quoting myself back “against” myself to prove a point about another book isn’t what’s on discussion here. ;)

 

Also you’re missing the point. In my own opinion which may only matter to me, based on the facts others have kindly given us through reading the book, these are the conclusions I have drawn and that’s about it.

 

Legion is a separate discussion. On what I’ve heard and looked at about this new book it’s purely how I feel. Your review of Legion is your own and probably better centred somewhere else within our Black Library sub forum buddy. :)

 

BCC

Edited January 26, 2021 by battle captain corpus

[mc warhammer]

not to ruin a good abnett bash...but weren't the twins an alan merrett thing?

[SkimaskMohawk]

Quoting myself back “against” myself to prove a point about another book isn’t what’s on discussion here. ;)

 

Also you’re missing the point. In my own opinion which may only matter to me, based on the facts others have kindly given us through reading the book, these are the conclusions I have drawn and that’s about it.

 

Legion is a separate discussion. On what I’ve heard and looked at about this new book it’s purely how I feel. Your review of Legion is your own and probably better centred somewhere else within our Black Library sub forum buddy. :)

 

BCC

You missed my point. The core complaint you seem to have in that he's making stuff up applies to almost every book in the series. Abnett writes great books, but makes stuff up left and right that has fundamental impacts on the lore that other authors have to address.

 

This changes nothing. If it's an ego trip trying to push his own stuff, then it's an oddly considerate one that really doesn't matter at all.

 

Love the off-topic claims to avoid substantiating your point. It's a real classic.

[battle captain corpus]

I’ve hardly avoided substantiating my point at all. My points extremely clear from my first post buddy. :)

 

BCC

[Petitioner's City]

No need to argue, guys & gals - what will matter is (eventually for most of us) actually having the book in hand and reading it ourselves. Disclaiming something because of spoilers doesn't really help get to the text, and why it works/doesn't. 

 

Anyway, very excited for this book - Road to Redemption and Wanted: Dead were great, esp. the latter, and Extermination was wonderful for how Alan Bligh (and French and Wyllie and Hoare, depending on who wrote what in the AL section) danced on all those ideas of the XXth from Abnett's excellent work to older ideas. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

The point of your initial post was that the post was your subjective opinion? Because it seemed to be that it was an author ruining an established concept with his own ideas to draw attention to himself. My question is how is this the book that creates that impression compared to...the rest of them.

[KJB]

50 pages into it and I have to say it's my favorite of the series so far