How are you finding new DG "on the table"?

[McElMcNinja]

I think transports can be useful depending on the mission. They may also help your army if you’re relying on a mobile army for your secondaries. One of my latest games I didn’t need mobility and so I didn’t take transports. I do have a list that I built around certain secondaries and included a rhino and a drill. It really all depends on what you want your army to accomplish.

I also like flamer type weapons with certain builds, if I plan on jumping out and flaming I don’t expect to get a charge off, but I plan on being able to overwatch and take some models out on their way in. That’s what I like about our codex, you have options depending on what you like or how you want to play.

[McElMcNinja]

I had a good game against DE today, he conceded turn 3.5. Morty was able to stay safe the first 3 turns and I used him to do psychic ritual before he got dug in. By this point I had lost a unit of 20 Poxwalkers, 2 PBCs, 1 Deathshroud, and 2 PMs. I had scored 15 for PR then would score 10 for WWSWF, 12 for Vital Ground, and 45 for Primary. He was only going to score 20 primary, 0 for Vital Ground, 0 for assassinate, and 0 or 10 for Deploy Scramblers.

I was running 3 PBCs, 2 with cannons and 1 with spitters. So my 3 WWSWFs were Morty and the the 2 cannons. I ran the spitter one up the board and he had to take that one out first, the 3 mortars killed the units that could Deploy Scramblers limiting what he could bring at me.

He is going to adjust his list and we are to play later this week before a tournament this weekend, so I may not do so good. I will let you all know.

[KingYertle]

Thanks Ninja.  How did you approach securing the primaries before the DE units?

 

I've had a very different experience playing vs DE although both games were Incursion 1k games rather than 2k.  In both, despite going first I was not able to advance up on the primary in T1.  The DE player, playing Cult of Strife was able to use their speed and MSU units to both charge my advancing units while other units secured the objectives.  Between Heat and Dark lances sniping my terminators (DE being able to fall back and charge is brutal) and Wytches supported by a Succubus hitting like a freight train I was unable to push those units off my lines in a single fight phase.  As a result my forward push stalled and the DE player easily took board control to rack up Primary points.

 

In Game 1 I was actually tabled in T3.  In Game 2 I managed to survive the game but only scored 10 primary points (Domination scoring so +5 for hold 2, +5 for 3, etc).  My Blightlords spent the whole game stuck in melee combat just outside my deployment zone.  Wytches, with their 4++ invul are surprisingly resilient in melee and by the time my BL cleared them the next wave charged in.  At the same time Heat Lance Reavers made could use of terrain and their speed to get behind my lines to snipe and charge my characters.  It was a very effective game plan, as I spent the game fighting around my deployment zone while the DE player racked up Primary points with their board control.

 

We could use a separate forum just for dealing with the DE menace!

[McElMcNinja]

During deployment he went strong one side and had planned on his Helions to go grab the objective on the opposite side with not much support. While he did deploy them out of LoS, I put all my mortars into them, he made them -1 to hit, but I still was able to take out all but 3. I had been able to advance a unit of Poxwalkers up and by turn 2 a second unit. He had a Ravenger he was going to use, but I was able get both PBCs w/entropy lined up on it and took it out.

So he went all in on the other objective which I had gotten another unit of Poxwalkers on and my flamer PBC close to. I could have advanced it, but I wanted to use it’s mortar (which paid off). He cleared both of those but I countered next turn with Deathshroud and characters. I was able to pop a raider in my turn with my Plaguecaster with the skull, a smite, and curse. The Deathshroud and Blightspawn flamed the contents. This gave me the objective back. His response was emptying out another one and charging in with a lot of stuff including a damaged raider. He made my Deathshroud fight last and I made his squad fight last. I had also heroically intervened with my caster into the raider. He was only able to kill 1.66 Deathshroud, while my caster took out the damaged raider and the DS killed some troops.

Turn 3 my caster did work on some more troops, I had wounded most of his big fliers, then Morty was able to join in along with my second unit of DS. By this time he had a full raider going towards the other objective, but he had to decide if he should use them to deploy his last scrambler or attack 2 units of Poxwalkers.

That’s when he called it and we talked it out. He said he was hoping I would ignore the weak side, so it was a gamble for both of us, I just chose correctly in the end. Had I not destroyed that first Ravenger and Helions it would have been a different game. It also helped that he had to put all his big shots into the flamer PBC, had he left it I would have been in a really good spot. That left me both PBCs w/entropy to slow him down removing his speed advantage.

Edited May 3, 2021 by McElMcNinja

[Wolf Lord Loki]

I think transports can be useful depending on the mission. They may also help your army if you’re relying on a mobile army for your secondaries. One of my latest games I didn’t need mobility and so I didn’t take transports. I do have a list that I built around certain secondaries and included a rhino and a drill. It really all depends on what you want your army to accomplish.

I also like flamer type weapons with certain builds, if I plan on jumping out and flaming I don’t expect to get a charge off, but I plan on being able to overwatch and take some models out on their way in. That’s what I like about our codex, you have options depending on what you like or how you want to play.

I like the idea of Flame builds, do you have a squad set up that you usually go to for this?

[McElMcNinja]

In the drill I run the Putrifier w/Arch-contaminator, the Blightspawn w/vats, and then a squads of PMs. Champ w/plasma, 2 blight launcher, 2 spewers, 2 flail, 2 cleaver, and 1 melta. With a couple strats I can throw 18+d6 grenades (from the 4 melee) plus have all that shooting.

If I’m going for WWSWF, I split that unit into 2 dropping the melta for a fist on the second champ. Same strats and depending on your target, just throw 18 grenades or the extra d6. I usually throw the extra grenade if the unit is big enough to take advantage of the blast rule. The second unit can perform an action if need be or also shoot.

If possible I drop a LoC with Ferric Blight and cast Gift of Plagues on him. Now they are all rerolling 1’s to hit, rerolling all to wound with plague weapons, all at an additional -1AP, at targets that are -1T.

Edited May 6, 2021 by McElMcNinja

[McElMcNinja]

Played 4 games this week and while I initially went 3-1 after some checking went 3-0. My loss was against Necrons and he was straight up cheating, so I don’t count that as a loss, but a learning experience. I need to learn other codex better and not trust their “rules”, he was using strats on units he couldn’t, using rules for units that were for others, etc. Outside that game, two conceded before turn 3 and the other came down to he ran out of time and we talked it out. I still think our codex needs better secondaries, we just don’t have a strong one like most of the new codex.

For the two that conceded I had lost a unit of Poxwalkers (Space Wolves) in the first and a unit of Poxwalkers and a drone in the second (DE). In the other game I had lost 2 units of Poxwalkers and a PBC (sisters/guard). In no way am I saying these armies were the best lists, but they were good lists that had potential.

During the DE game in two turns I was able to destroy 4 raiders (along with some of their contents) and a bomber. This slowed him down quiet a bit and he was tilted to the point he made bad decisions. The MVPs were Contemptors with Twin volkite culverin with a Lord and tallyman with tollkeeper nearby. My contagion was Ferric Blight (-1AP) and they were in range. I split fire and had 8 shots per raider, hitting on 2’s, re-roll 1’s, 6’s were additional hits, wounding on 3’s, 6’s also doing MWs, -1AP, 2D. The second Contemptor didn’t have the +1 to hit, but was in range for all the other auras in addition to the missile launchers I gave them. Then the mortars opened up from the PBCs for whatever popped out while the entropy shot more boats. Pretty much the same thing happened against the other lists, I got rid of their anti-tank first and put extra shots into small units. It came down to they couldn’t hurt my vehicles and my infantry was tougher then theirs. They couldn’t bring enough damage to my Poxwalkers holding objectives and me reinforcing them with Deathshroud.

Going to play more games with my list, but I think it’s a good one.

[Special Officer Doofy]

I'm really digging PBC's with ectoplasm cannons now. Soooo good for 175pts. Firing at stuff outside of line of sight has saved me in a pinch before. Them getting 3+BS and making ectoplasm cannons plague weapons with Damage 3+d3 was what it took for me to take 2-3 with most lists. Love em. I'm glad they buffed them, I have no need for any other heavy support option now.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

I'm really digging PBC's with ectoplasm cannons now. Soooo good for 175pts. Firing at stuff outside of line of sight has saved me in a pinch before. Them getting 3+BS and making ectoplasm cannons plague weapons with Damage 3+d3 was what it took for me to take 2-3 with most lists. Love em. I'm glad they buffed them, I have no need for any other heavy support option now.

Ectoplasm? Do you mean Entropy cannons? And Im assuming you mean the plague mortar?

 

Sorry just confused myself while reading it

[Marshal Loss]

I'm really digging PBC's with ectoplasm cannons now. Soooo good for 175pts. Firing at stuff outside of line of sight has saved me in a pinch before. Them getting 3+BS and making ectoplasm cannons plague weapons with Damage 3+d3 was what it took for me to take 2-3 with most lists. Love em. I'm glad they buffed them, I have no need for any other heavy support option now.

Agreed, I've been taking 2 in every single list. If I were playing 2000 I'd be running 3.

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

I'm really digging PBC's with ectoplasm cannons now. Soooo good for 175pts. Firing at stuff outside of line of sight has saved me in a pinch before. Them getting 3+BS and making ectoplasm cannons plague weapons with Damage 3+d3 was what it took for me to take 2-3 with most lists. Love em. I'm glad they buffed them, I have no need for any other heavy support option now.

Ectoplasm? Do you mean Entropy cannons? And Im assuming you mean the plague mortar?

 

Sorry just confused myself while reading it

Oh jeez my bad I was up late watching ghost busters almost passing out while commenting. Yes Entropy Cannons. Haha I can't believe I said ectoplasm.

 

And yes when talking about shooting without line of sight I was referring to the mortars. I should have separated the thoughts more clearly, again I blame ghost busters!

 

Agreed, I've been taking 2 in every single list. If I were playing 2000 I'd be running 3.

Yeah I'm taking 3 at 2000pts. The fact the model looks fantastic too is icing on the cake.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

@putrid choir

 

No worries.....

 

Sounds highly appropriate though....who do we speak to at GW to get ectoplasm cannons?!?!

[Cryptix]

Those would just be entropy cannons that become damage 6 when targeting Daemons. :P

[CastellanDeMolay]

@putrid choir

 

No worries.....

 

Sounds highly appropriate though....who do we speak to at GW to get ectoplasm cannons?!?!

IIRC Forge-fiends already have those. 

[Balerion84]

So you're saying that the Plague Marines that had a single wound, and no guaranteed damage reduction against D2 weapons were better than the the most updated rules? Very interesting.

 

You're free to use the old profile if you prefer lol

 

As for the Castigator, the main weapon looks quite good. I'd need to look at the codex in detail and see what starts and synergies exist that make use of it before I judge. I've not reviewed it myself yet...

 

This is a much more appropriate topic for this I think

 

So, I never said PMs profile got worse, seems like you are arguing with yourself here... I said that PMs are barely playable. They don't really do anything. In my experience, their DR doesn't help very much. They are usually either shot off the table by a massed volume of D1 fire or keep hiding. They cost way too much. Either you take them barebones and they don't do anything offensively and you keep hiding them, or you equip them with special weapons and then you get a unit SO expensive, that it's not worth it. Because, and I know this is surprising to you, they are quite easily killed. Even with 2W.

 

Vehicles on the whole got a lot less tough than in the past. DR barely does anything for them. As for the haulers you mentioned, they are so expensive now, that it's really hard to justify taking them. They have a nice strat, but considering their cost and not a great damage output, combined with their lower survivability, means, they were quite underwhelming when I tried them. Compared with their performance after PA, they got a LOT worse sadly.

 

Poxwalkers and terminators are very good though. I understand that the grass is greener on the other side, but it's really not in this case. It's a solid codex, that I don't think can compete with the power of Drukhari and Admech or any future codexes that'd be on a similar level as these 2. I think the power level of the first codexes, Necrons, SMs and DG, was good. But started to get over the top in 2021 with DA, DE and Admech.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Balerion84

[Bat33.1]

Got to agree with that Drukhari and AdMech are playing a different game right now if they are running a tournament list and even toned down are still super strong. The disadvantage they have is that both armies have complex rules and take a bit of learning to use well.

DG are still strong and have multiple builds that can win events, Nick Nanavati has won several recent GTs with different DG lists but is currently getting getting a Drukhari list put together as the consensus among top players seems to be the easiest way to compete with Drukhari is to run Drukhari