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Which legion has the best 'Breacher" unit in the game?


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13 replies to this topic

#1
RoadRunna

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I would argue that the best marines with breacher shields are probably going to be drawn from from either the Iron Hands or Imperial Fists due the Rights of War that can help these units out or their own special abilities (included here [for example] are the Immortals of the IH with Bitter Iron to make them Troops, Hatred and Stubborn in the enemy deployment zone)

 

For special occasions there are also the Mournival Events only unit - XIIth (World Eaters) Legion Triarii Breachers which come with all the usual gear plus chainaxe, FnP 6+ and Counter-attack

 

So, which do you prefer?



#2
Kizzdougs

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Probably the Ultramarines with the Invictarus Suzerain. The Phalanx Warders are also really good with their play-test rules in the FAQ. They're actually cheaper than regular Breachers and their melta-bombs are also cheaper as soon as the squad goes above 10 men. They also get combi-weapons and power axes for a discounted price. 


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#3
SkimaskMohawk

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Phalanx warders are the best if taken in stone gauntlet. Suzerains are very strong, but are a little too general in what role they want to do; pretty good on the charge, but lose out on having a boarding shield while also not having counter charge.

Medusan immortals are...weird? I always feel like I just don't understand how you use them properly. They're a short ranged shooting unit with either bolters or volkites and can take special weapons (but not plasma), but the seargent can't take a combi weapon. They can swap the guns for melee weapons, but those don't do anything due to the shields, and you have a hard time sweeping, and you have low base attacks. My only thoughts would to be to sling them in a termite and melta stuff and then be a nuisance in the backline, but that's like 260 for the unit without volkite.

#4
RoadRunna

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Phalanx warders are the best if taken in stone gauntlet. Suzerains are very strong, but are a little too general in what role they want to do; pretty good on the charge, but lose out on having a boarding shield while also not having counter charge.

Medusan immortals are...weird? I always feel like I just don't understand how you use them properly. They're a short ranged shooting unit with either bolters or volkites and can take special weapons (but not plasma), but the seargent can't take a combi weapon. They can swap the guns for melee weapons, but those don't do anything due to the shields, and you have a hard time sweeping, and you have low base attacks. My only thoughts would to be to sling them in a termite and melta stuff and then be a nuisance in the backline, but that's like 260 for the unit without volkite.

 

I think with Immortals they are really good at ZM in the confined corridors but on a bigger board you need to be more careful with them - good for defending an objective or choke-point with the -1Sth to shooting attacks and the boarding shield denies enemies their charge bonus (take that WorldEaters).  



#5
SkimaskMohawk

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Very true, but at the same time they don't rally have the tools to grind out a combat in their favour, only to tarpit and lose eventually. In ZM that can be a game changer, but in normal games that's kind of detrimental since that melee unit is now protected from shooting for a few turns.

Its also important to note that world eaters don't lose their rerolls since the shield doesn't cause disordered. Only the rage attacks.

#6
infyrana

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I've always wanted to see how DG Breachers would work out with Morturg's Ambush abilities, Rad grenades, scythe on serg and shredding flamers etc.  But it's not in my knowledge to understand the full rules and how it compares to anything else out there.


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#7
The Scorpion

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Phalanx warders are the best if taken in stone gauntlet. Suzerains are very strong, but are a little too general in what role they want to do; pretty good on the charge, but lose out on having a boarding shield while also not having counter charge.

Medusan immortals are...weird? I always feel like I just don't understand how you use them properly. They're a short ranged shooting unit with either bolters or volkites and can take special weapons (but not plasma), but the seargent can't take a combi weapon. They can swap the guns for melee weapons, but those don't do anything due to the shields, and you have a hard time sweeping, and you have low base attacks. My only thoughts would to be to sling them in a termite and melta stuff and then be a nuisance in the backline, but that's like 260 for the unit without volkite.

 

I think with Immortals they are really good at ZM in the confined corridors but on a bigger board you need to be more careful with them - good for defending an objective or choke-point with the -1Sth to shooting attacks and the boarding shield denies enemies their charge bonus (take that WorldEaters).  

 

Immortals work indeed best in ZM, especially with the "bitter iron" RoW, which makes them troops and gives them Hatred (traitors).


Edited by The Scorpion, 11 February 2021 - 05:01 PM.


#8
Unknown Legionnaire

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Yeah, Immortals & Bitter Iron are ace.


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#9
Gorgoff

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All Breachers work best in ZM, no?
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#10
Brofist

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Yep, for sure. The ZM RoW is a pretty good one by itself, but the breacher buffs make it real easy for most legions to make an effective (albiet, cookie cutter) ZM list with breachers
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#11
Indefragable

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Slightly off topic tangent to this question, but is it pointless to bring Troops units other than Breachers in ZM? It seems like especially with the right RoW they are so good, yours at a disadvantage if you don’t bring them (and yes I know you can get Termies as Troops through means).

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#12
Eternal Despair

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Not entirely, while breachers are best suited to ZM and have a plethora of bonus/traits that keep stuff like cold void from hurting them you do end up paying a hefty premium for them, from memory a moderately tooled up 10 man breacher squad without melta bombs is somewhere around 225-240 mark, for a few extra points you could get 2 basic 10 man tactical squads, certainly less survivable 1v1 but quantity is a quality of its own. 

 

Assault marines also have their benefits, namely superior movement, while not without risks due to difficult terrain it is minimal and "practically" non existent with a feel no pain, one of the things that I've seen trip a lot of people up is they send there units down a path in ZM that would effectively leave them doing nothing for the game, a 12 inch move mitigates that and gives you an advantage to close the distance on objectives etc and also have access to squad wide meltabombs which are useful. Though it is debatable how fluffy jump packs are in ZM, then again the white scars also race their jetbikes around their ships so there is that. 

 

alternatively there's a dozen other troops via rite of war that are lethal in ZM, looking at you terror squads, or just straight up improvements on the existing choices. 

 

personally I tend to either go cheap with the tactical squads to either take more toys else where, out number my opponents or I go with moderately tooled up breachers, which for me is usually 10 with 2 meltaguns, artificer on the sarge, a meele weapon of some description and a cyber familiar if I'm using them in my Iron hands army .

 

TL;DR yes they have a place it all comes down to what you want to focus on cheapness (Tacs), mobility (Assault), durability (breachers), lethality (anything other than breachers) 


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#13
Gorgoff

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Because I modeled them like that my Breachers are a ten men squad with one melter and flamethrower each, AA plus powerfist at the sarge and I put a doctor in them as well most of the time. They're a fun unit in ZM but so are terminators and of course dreadnoughts.


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#14
Brofist

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Yeah breachers in ZM are hard to shift and good against dreadnaughts or MCs (if they have melta bombs), but they're not cheap and they're slow. Other units do other things better, often for less points, so they have a place, but they aren't the end all of troops choices in ZM.
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