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Matching up against BA this week.

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#1
Prot

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Alright, I hope to get some conversation going here. I'm fortunate in that I can play in one of my main groups frequently.

 

I've really enjoyed the White Scars playstyle since 8th edition but I feel like the hype is a little over done as more codexes come out in 9th. For example I find Death Guard just exceptionally difficult to match up against since they inherently just 'shut off' the super doctrine, and they LOVE it when you get within all those negative auraus.

 

The next hurdle for me is Sanguinary guard heavy Blood Angels. Tough match up. He also favours a Leviathan Dread which is a great tool for popping Intercessors.

 

What I plan to try is to use my new Reiver LT to manipulate obsec.

 

I usually use Assault intercessors for troops with hammers, but I'm considering regular intercessors for the shooting ability of the assault bolters.

 

The only thing I'm certain of is Bladeguard + Thunderstrike (new speeder for fun) + 3 MM ATV's. 

 

Anyone have any advice to round out the list? Some hot takes on some good WS units?

 

 

 

 

 


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#2
Karhedron

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Speaking as a Blood Angel player, I know that I really do not like units of Plasma Inceptors pointed at my Sanguinary Guard. I usually run my SG in units of 6+ so the Blast rule really hurts them.
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Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#3
Prot

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That's a good point. I forget about those Plasmaceptors since I pulled them out of my list. The truth is I found them to be really bad performers against Deathguard, so to experiment I put the points into more assault and melta shots. (less shots, but more value.)

 

I have come to LOVE the Redemptors with plasma but it's a weird mix in the White Scars since it's nearly the only armour I take (even two of them).

 

I've even thought of going back to a las-Repulsor using Encirclement with a load of Assault Intercessors on board.  But wow is that expensive... good trick but expensive.

 

So my thought was the Hellblasters with Assault Plasma shots replaces the plasmaceptors but its untested.


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#4
Tokugawa

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Inceptor is better than hellblaster, in almost every aspect.

And they don't hit hard by DG -1dmg at all. Just don't overcharge and shoot normally. DG can't function at full MSU, they almost always bring at least 1 big squad of infantries(e.g. 10 Blightlords). So it is easy to reach max 6 shots. Even when there is no ideal target, due to high raw number of attacks, inceptors are still better on clearing poxwalkers, than other (maybe)50% units in your army.
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#5
SanguinaryGuardsman

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You could try a "slice captain" with the burning blade.  That would make a mess of sang guard since they wouldn't get a save.  Maybe that is a bit of list tailoring but such a captain would be useful in a lot of matchups.  

 

What about the 3 shot hellblasters?  Those guys ought to usable in 9th in some capacity.  


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#6
Karhedron

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What about the 3 shot hellblasters?  Those guys ought to usable in 9th in some capacity.


They are usable, it is just that in most use cases, they are outperformed by Plasma Inceptors. 6 Plasma Inceptors cost around the same price as 10 Hellblasters. They have 18 wouns vs the Hellblasters 20 but they are T5 which makes them more durable. 3 wounds is pretty tasty as it makes them twice as durable against 2D weapons so a lot of common anti-marine weapons will waste shots against them. They also have access to the Gravis strat giving +1 save to protect against small-arms fire.

They have a 6" shorter range but a 10" flying move and come in from Reserves meaning they don't need a Transport.

They average 24 shots against the Hellblasters 30 but those shots S7/8 rather than S6/7 which makes them a lot more threatening to vehicles. Also the Blast rule means they get 36 shots guaranteed when firing at a squad of 6 or more.

Against Death Guard, both types of gun are quite effective without overcharging.

It is not that Hellblasters are bad, they are pretty good. It is just that Plasma Inceptors are better in most cases.
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Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#7
Prot

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So my thought was the Hellblasters with Assault Plasma shots replaces the plasmaceptors but its untested.

 

 

 

What about the 3 shot hellblasters?  Those guys ought to usable in 9th in some capacity.




Against Death Guard, both types of gun are quite effective without overcharging.

It is not that Hellblasters are bad, they are pretty good. It is just that Plasma Inceptors are better in most cases.

 

 

Yea, this what I meant by "assault" hellblaster plasma. Three shots, which can overcharge, but against the majority of infantry in the game it won't make a big difference. However I use a lot of melta for tanks. 


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#8
Riddlesworth

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Two suggestions -

1. Khan on Bike with the flying bike relic and either chogorian storm.or master rider. I've been theory hammering this to save some.points over a THSS bike captain and I think it's got great value as a missile. Also gets you rerolls for overcharging plasceptors.

2. 5 boltstorn aggressors paired with either your chief apothecary toting the Plume, or a Ride the Winds Librarian. Tome of malcador/psychic fortress/psychic mastery optional. Great counter charge or pressure unit with a pretty bonkers threat range. They also enjoy chewing through sang guard

Edited by Riddlesworth, 12 March 2021 - 04:39 PM.


#9
Prot

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I like the HQ on a bike, but I do love Korsarro on foot. He's immensely helpful to bladeguard. But I do like the HQ idea you have. I definitely want to keep the new Reiver LT I have. He just looks so cool... and I was planning on using him to rob OBSEC

 

Perhaps it's worth me taking off the Libby and making a points adjustment to get the bike HQ in there. Very hard decisions for HQ"s with this army!


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#10
6262

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Korsarro is a great multitool for the army. He just adds so much to everything in his neck of the board (in addition to flavor)

It might be my meta(in house) but giving up a stormseer seems like a bigger ask than the Lt. Are there a lot of times that stealing objective secured would net you the points to change the results of the game? I imagine that when it does come up though it would be a huge moment though.

#11
Tokugawa

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Sadly the reiver lieutenant doesn't and can't have any real wargear. That made it a dedicated objective-stealing unit, with an investment of 75pts and 2+cp. If it has barely the most basic weapon/shield options, much more players won't hesitate to bring it.

#12
Karhedron

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I am planning on building a Reiver Lt as he seems to have definite possibilities. I agree that he hits as hard as a wet noodle but he still brings the full aura of rerolling 1s to wound that any other Lt has so put him with a decent squad and let them do the heavy lifting. His ability to inflict -2 Ld on the enemy can make morale bite a bit harder. Plus he has access to shock grenades. If you opponent is relying on a powerhouse unit then slapping a -1 to hit on all their attacks can be a real pain.

The inability to use Concealed Positions is a nuisance but as a character, footslogging is not too dangerous as long as he sticks close to friendly units. Give him Rites of War and laugh as he can single handedly steal any Objective, even when outnumbered 20-to-1 by ObjSec Troops. Remember if you and your opponent both hold 2 Objectives that is 10 VPs each. If your Lt can steal one, even for a turn that becomes 15:5 to you. A 10VP lead at the right time can really swing the game.

He is a bit of a finesse tool but he has a lot of tricks in the bag for 75 points and only uses up 1/2 of an HQ slot.
Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.

#13
Tokugawa

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I am planning on building a Reiver Lt as he seems to have definite possibilities. I agree that he hits as hard as a wet noodle but he still brings the full aura of rerolling 1s to wound that any other Lt has so put him with a decent squad and let them do the heavy lifting. His ability to inflict -2 Ld on the enemy can make morale bite a bit harder. Plus he has access to shock grenades. If you opponent is relying on a powerhouse unit then slapping a -1 to hit on all their attacks can be a real pain.

The inability to use Concealed Positions is a nuisance but as a character, footslogging is not too dangerous as long as he sticks close to friendly units. Give him Rites of War and laugh as he can single handedly steal any Objective, even when outnumbered 20-to-1 by ObjSec Troops. Remember if you and your opponent both hold 2 Objectives that is 10 VPs each. If your Lt can steal one, even for a turn that becomes 15:5 to you. A 10VP lead at the right time can really swing the game.

He is a bit of a finesse tool but he has a lot of tricks in the bag for 75 points and only uses up 1/2 of an HQ slot.

 

For WL traits, is is fine to put Rite of war on him. How about your relic choice?

#14
Karhedron

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There are no "must have" relics for him that I can think of. Artificer armour makes him a bit more durable and Vox Espirantum boosts the range of his Lt aura and Rites of War but I would not consider them essential.
Sanguinius stood up, stretching his wings to their full extent. He flexed his hands. "I need no blade".
It was as though Sanguinius gleamed with pale light, his face white, eyes becoming blood-red, surrounded by the golden crown of flowing hair. Guilliman had witnessed glimpses of of his brother's wrath before, but had never seen the true Blood Angel unleashed. Sanguinius surged forward on alabaster wings, half a meter from the floor, whiteness streaming from him like flames.




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