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[40k] Adepta Sororitas - Castigator Tank


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#126
Ishagu

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No it doesn't, and maybe it doesn't have to.

The Exorcist is a particular type or revered vehicle, this could be more of a workhorse MBT. Sister also use Rhinos, and the level or ornamentation on those is a match for this new Tank.
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#127
SkimaskMohawk

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No it doesn't, and maybe it doesn't have to.

The Exorcist is a particular type or revered vehicle, this could be more of a workhorse MBT. Sister also use Rhinos, and the level or ornamentation on those is a match for this new Tank.


You notice how the ornamentation scales up? Kind of like a natural progression of importance and damage output. The most versatile representation of bringing Holy war to the enemies of man is just going to less religiously important than a rhino. Really makes sense with the faction of zealots.

#128
Evil Eye

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Funny, I for one am actually quite glad that it isn't completely smothered in bling. It's already quite a visually busy vehicle anyway- much more detail and it'd be a total cluster :cuss . And as has been mentioned, it's really not too difficult to add more details from your bitz box. Yes, it means you have to use other components, but then last time I checked the models don't assemble themselves or paint themselves either.

Well yes, the solution is pretty simple. But there shouldn't need to be extra work put into it to make it match the rest of the factions tanks.

You have a completely modernized, refreshed plastic range and you're complaining that one tank isn't as blingy as one of the blingiest tanks in the entire Imperium without a little bit of kitbashing. Try having been a Tyranid player in 5th, when entire units could only be made with extensive kitbashing and sculpting work, and only half of those units would end up getting models at all (the other half being written out of the rules altogether without even Legends entries). Has it occurred to you that you might just be making a mountain out of a mole hill?

Edited by Dam13n, 25 March 2021 - 09:11 AM.
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#129
Ishagu

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No it doesn't, and maybe it doesn't have to.

The Exorcist is a particular type or revered vehicle, this could be more of a workhorse MBT. Sister also use Rhinos, and the level or ornamentation on those is a match for this new Tank.

You notice how the ornamentation scales up? Kind of like a natural progression of importance and damage output. The most versatile representation of bringing Holy war to the enemies of man is just going to less religiously important than a rhino. Really makes sense with the faction of zealots.

We don't know the importance of this tank.

The vehicles the Ecclesiarchy deploys actually become more ornamented over time - that's in the lore. All of these tanks might be relatively new.

No, I don't see a problem. And even if you did there are two very simple solutions - kitbash, or don't use the unit!
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#130
nagashnee

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They can say what they want, its marine sloppy secconds for the sisters, its a predator with minimal changes. Unless they make it so the fluff for it reflects this (large number of leftovers now that first born are done from the forge worlds maybe?) then its just lazy.


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#131
SkimaskMohawk

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@evil eye Not sure what you're trying to say.

That a 90+ CAD tank should need more money spent on it to make it match thematically with their other tanks?

That the range being refreshed makes that justifiable?

That a completely different era of rules design makes my opinion invalid?


Like really, the tyranid comparison is so flawed. There were tons of units that had no official model back in the days of 4th/5th and 6th/7th WHFB. I had to convert units that had no models plenty of times and still do for 30k. But that doesn't mean models that are released now shouldn't follow the design philosophy of the faction they belong to. Or need to cannibalize a 90 cad kit to make it fit in properly. Models that do break their faction's aesthetic are always divisive, without fail.

@ishagu read the fluff on the rhino for sisters. If they can drum up that much for just a transport, then a battle tank should be something else entirely. You keep on trying to say "well maybe it won't be thought of importantly, maybe it's not significant to them" and that shows how much it misses the point. Everything is important to them, especially when it comes to war and purging enemies. The more it serves the imperium, the more special it is.

Edited by SkimaskMohawk, 24 March 2021 - 03:53 PM.


#132
MechaMan

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Kitbashing costs. 

 

Yeah, I do appreciate this. I'm (edit: primarily) a Guard player, so I honestly can't remember the last time I put together a unit with the contents of just one kit. I am constantly getting Forge World kits for cosmetic upgrades, and I'm constantly having to buy three separate boxes just to assemble one infantry squad with special and heavy weapons! At this stage, I might just have stockholm syndrome.

 

That said, I feel like it's kind of reasonable that cosmetic kitbashing incurs a greater cost. After all, kitbashing is the hobbyist putting the hobby in hobbying and making something that reflects their preferences. I also think its great when they make kits that are kitbash friendly. Some of the injection moulded, mono-pose miniatures they've been releasing lately have been a nightmare from that perspective. 

 

I see this tank as a great kit in and of itself, and one that will be a great addition to the bitz box.

 

Edit: I guess what I'm saying is Games Workshop couldn't possibly cater for each individual's aesthetic preferences. I don't like having non-solids modelled, some people are really missing the flames. All GW can do is provide kits that allow their customers a degree of flexibility so they can kitbash to their own preferences. Now there are flaming braisers and braisers without flame. Why add to the cost of a single kit (which would affect everyone) by having both in one box. 

 

The choice might not even matter to lots of people, they might want to mix and match, they might be flame agnostic. As it stands, both the flamers and the non-flamers have a chance to be happy and those who are flame agnostic don't have to pay more for a single kit that caters for both parties. Those who want just flames, or just embers, can have just flames, or just embers, but they'll have to pay a bit more to meet those preferences. That seems, to me anyway, to be a pretty fair situation. 


Edited by MechaMan, 24 March 2021 - 04:38 PM.


#133
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With 3 releases now seen (tank, warsuit, palatine) and opinion being quite divided on the new models I wonder what else is still to come? Ecclesiarchy, a flyer? It does seem that after near universal praise for the initial release this wave has hit a stumbling block though.
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#134
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With 3 releases now seen (tank, warsuit, palatine) and opinion being quite divided on the new models I wonder what else is still to come? Ecclesiarchy, a flyer? It does seem that after near universal praise for the initial release this wave has hit a stumbling block though.


Plastic priests, death cult assassins and crusaders to round out the ecclesiastical part of the codex?
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#135
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With 3 releases now seen (tank, warsuit, palatine) and opinion being quite divided on the new models I wonder what else is still to come? Ecclesiarchy, a flyer? It does seem that after near universal praise for the initial release this wave has hit a stumbling block though.


In the main people frown on new.
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#136
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Rules for Frateris Militia maybe? Models already exist (Cawdor gangers), all that is missing is rules to field them as the militia the Ecclesiarchy deserves...

#137
jimbo1701

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With 3 releases now seen (tank, warsuit, palatine) and opinion being quite divided on the new models I wonder what else is still to come? Ecclesiarchy, a flyer? It does seem that after near universal praise for the initial release this wave has hit a stumbling block though.

In the main people frown on new.

I’m curious if the tank had remained Same armament but had more ostentatious livery like the exorcist / immolator would opinion be less divided. Is it the (relatively) toned down aesthetic or the fact it’s an mbt? Or both? I bought loads of sisters when the range came out as I’d been waiting a decade for plastics, but I’m not rushing to buy these and am not sure why.
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#138
Commander Dawnstar

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I'm sorry, why do people have an issue with this tank exactly?

It matches the Sister's aesthetic perfectly. It doesn't have an Organ or chapel on top, but that's due to the function of the tank and having a large turret.

I've seen quite a bit of unreasonable pushback... but that's typical for every single kit which isn't an update of something old these days lol.

Personally I'd say it's a very simple matter that:

  • The Exorcist doesn't look like a Whirlwind
  • The Immolator only bears a passing resemblance at best to a Razorback
  • The Castigator looks enough like a Predator that more than a few people in this thread are talking about using it as a Predator

Certainly the Castigator has a lot of detailing on it that falls in line with the Sisters range, but for people like myself it doesn't feel like a Sisters tank precisely because it isn't ostentatious and over the top. If a vehicle unique to the Sisters of Battle looks enough like a Space Marine vehicle that it could easily pass for one then it's missed the mark in my opinion.


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#139
Evil Eye

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@evil eye Not sure what you're trying to say.

That a 90+ CAD tank should need more money spent on it to make it match thematically with their other tanks?
 

It doesn't need any more money spent on it. It looks fine as is and meshes in perfectly well with the other tanks (the Exorcist has always been ridiculously ostentatious compared to the other tanks, largely by virtue of them being extremely scarce relics of a bygone age), but if you don't like it you can kitbash it. If you really feel the burning need to throw even more bling on it then fine, but that's your problem and not GW's. This isn't a case of the model not coming with parts to give it weapon options in the Codex and requiring you to buy upgrade packs or dive into your sprue pile to add them- this is a case of you not liking how a kit looks aesthetically.


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#140
quasistellar

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I was thinking about how the Castigator role is kind of already filled by the Exorcist.

 

Then I was listening to the Gate of Bones audiobook today and they described "Exorcist artillery tanks".  Artillery is *usually* a term used to describe indirect fire munitions.

 

I wonder if they'll change the Exorcist to indirect fire in the new codex, so that these two tanks don't overlap roles so much?  It never made any sense to me that Exorcists required line of site anyway, simply due to their weapons firing straight up out of the organ.



#141
ThePenitentOne

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That would be amazing. Maybe they can give doms back the ability to confer their scout move on a transport while they're at it.



#142
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These would both be excellent changes

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#143
SkimaskMohawk

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@evil eye Not sure what you're trying to say.

That a 90+ CAD tank should need more money spent on it to make it match thematically with their other tanks?
 

It doesn't need any more money spent on it. It looks fine as is and meshes in perfectly well with the other tanks (the Exorcist has always been ridiculously ostentatious compared to the other tanks, largely by virtue of them being extremely scarce relics of a bygone age), but if you don't like it you can kitbash it. If you really feel the burning need to throw even more bling on it then fine, but that's your problem and not GW's. This isn't a case of the model not coming with parts to give it weapon options in the Codex and requiring you to buy upgrade packs or dive into your sprue pile to add them- this is a case of you not liking how a kit looks aesthetically.

 

 

It might be telling that more people seem to agree with my main posts on the first page than those of people who've been disagreeing. It's aesthetics are subjective, but its objective to say there isn't a consensus on it meshing perfectly with the preexisting range. As a SOB player I don't feel like its representative of the faction's themes and will kitbash any that I run; I'm not the only one who feels that way and missing the mark on their target audience means it's a design issue. in fact, I'd go one step further and say that the toning down of ornamentation is by design; a lot of people were disappointed when sisters didn't just come out with plastic deimos rhinos. Now they can easily resell predators to 3 different groups of marine players, without the hassle that an immolator or exorcist would present. 

 

I was thinking about how the Castigator role is kind of already filled by the Exorcist.

 

Then I was listening to the Gate of Bones audiobook today and they described "Exorcist artillery tanks".  Artillery is *usually* a term used to describe indirect fire munitions.

 

I wonder if they'll change the Exorcist to indirect fire in the new codex, so that these two tanks don't overlap roles so much?  It never made any sense to me that Exorcists required line of site anyway, simply due to their weapons firing straight up out of the organ.

 IIRC they were barrage back in the day, but that might have been a long time ago.



#144
Wulf Vengis

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The Castigator looks enough like a Predator that more than a few people in this thread are talking about using it as a Predator


My initial (and current) reaction to this tank was "huh, strange that the Sisters would get What is obviously designed to look and be a Black Templar tank".

a lot of people were disappointed when sisters didn't just come out with plastic deimos rhinos.


I was in this camp. Still am.

Sorry but this is just isn't a sisters tank, in my opinion. That doesn't mean anyone who likes it is wrong, it just means that I (and i can only speak for myself) don't like it.
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#145
Ishagu

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With 3 releases now seen (tank, warsuit, palatine) and opinion being quite divided on the new models I wonder what else is still to come? Ecclesiarchy, a flyer? It does seem that after near universal praise for the initial release this wave has hit a stumbling block though.


Nah not at all. These new kits are brand new units that didn't exist before. There's a loud, vocal minority who basically hate almost everything that's completely new.
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#146
mithrilforge

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Wow ...so much anger about a plastic model... laugh.png ...

 

I think the tank looks fine, it has just enough to say sisters of battle but a serious workhorse look, not stupid over the top bling that fraters think is the "required norm"  i always thought how devastated an army of sisters would be when some T'au put a huge hole through their Exorcist and blew it apart or if some chaos havoc decimated the entire stained glass window section of the immolator... or if the Triumph of Saint Katherine was ambushed and wiped out and then defaced by Word bearers...ohmy.png 

 

it's much needed long range firepower that most Sisters players (not the Angry fluff nazi ones tongue.png ) will enjoy fitting into their existing lists.... 

 

Mithril


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#147
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All I can add to this fire is this. If I had seen this vehicle before seeing the stained glass shrapnel too be of the Immolator I might still be collecting Sisters of Battle. 

 

Maybe, I don't want to replace all the models and Vehicles I have for the new stuff.

 

I like how there is a minimal of ornamentation at base. That is all I have to say about the better scaled Predator.



#148
Xenith

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++We're discussing the tank, not one another, brothers. Remember that and keep on-topic please.++


Edited by Xenith, 25 March 2021 - 08:17 AM.

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#149
battle captain corpus

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This topic was for the sole discussion of the new battle tank being made available to Sisters of Battle. After removing various Off Topic posts & a warning to steer the course by another Moderator some of you clearly cannot stay on track.

 

So...until further news or rumours regarding this release are forthcoming..

 

=][= This Topic is Closed =][=

 

Happy Hobbying!

 

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Edited by battle captain corpus, 25 March 2021 - 03:33 PM.

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