Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Question regarding the Mantis Warriors Chapter

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1
Gamiel

Gamiel

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 210 posts

Much fanart of the Mantis Warriors Chapter depict them as samurai-ish. I was wondering what this idea is based on, since nothing in their description (that I have seen) says samurai to me*? Or is it just a question of somebody doing them as samurai and later people just picking it up?

* more than any other warrior culture/group

 

 

Some examples:

43777-Astral%20Claws%2C%20Badab%2C%20Hur
 
 
adrian-iglesias-img-20201018-203042.jpg?
 
 
Sketchbook-May2018-Space-Marines-Samurai
 
 
d2it2ve-edeb2337-6f5a-47ea-999e-55b87d9c
 
 
This one is AU but still a functional example:
swkbksyis7p31.jpg
 
 
Guess this one could just be said to be Japanese-ish since that kind of swords handle is pop-culturally used by both samurais and ninjas
deathwatch_mantis_warrior_by_shuggnuggat


#2
Dumah

Dumah

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 671 posts
  • Location:Eunoia

I think it's more implied than stated. Officially, they're described as possessing a "streak of dark mysticism" which, combined with being descendants of the White Scars and being described as resource-poor compared to other chapters, lends itself to a feudal Samurai theme. You can certainly take it in a different direction if you're so inclined.


  • Gamiel likes this

I write things:

 

What Chapter Am I: A Fan Fiction Guessing Game

The Squiggly Beast that Could

 

Orks Iz Best

 

Beakiez iz okay, too...


#3
Lucien Eilam

Lucien Eilam

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,838 posts
  • Location:United Kingdom
  • Faction: Lightbringers

There was nothing like this in IA10.

 

Visually, they were presented as a standard Codex Chapter with more Mark IV/VI armour than usual.

 

The Marines named in their Index Astartes look to be derived from a mix of mock Latin (e.g. "Audamus"), Mongolian ("Sartaq"), vaguely Arabic ("Saraken", "Damaskan", slain in the defence of the "Ful'Souk Settlement"), and a few oddities like "Surabaya" (an Indonesian city derived from Sanskrit).

 

Nothing at all that strikes me as derived from Japanese language or culture, and camouflage and ambush tactics don't really say "samurai" to me.

 

If anything, the names, quotations about "the winds of the desert" and the focus on prophecy gives me a vaguely Middle Eastern vibe, with traces of their White Scars roots.


Edited by Lucien Eilam, 21 March 2021 - 03:48 PM.

  • Gamiel, Gederas, Shinespider and 1 other like this

“In general, we have found that the more scenery you can place on the battlefield, the better the game will be.”

Lightbringers Space Marines


#4
Brother Tyler

Brother Tyler

    ++ FIDELIS MILITUS ++

  • +++ADMINISTRATUM+++
  • 22,755 posts
  • Location:The Temple of Oaths
  • Faction: VIIth Legion

The only thing remotely Asian (not just Japanese) about the Mantis Warriors in any official publications is that the Deathwatch novel Warrior Brood includes some Mantis Warriors and the descriptions of their appearance might be interpreted as being vaguely Chinese (at least, that's the impression I got when I read that novel fifteen years ago). Aside from that, any representations of Mantis Warriors being Japanese are purely fan-based and inconsistent with the official portrayals (in the Badab War campaign books from Forge World).

Keep in mind, though, that things can change over time, so it's entirely possible that this popular (but not ubiquitous) portrayal of "Japanese" Mantis Warriors might influence future official characterization of the Chapter. This might be less likely now with GW centering the majority of the Adeptus Astartes into a more standardized appearance (i.e., not having to create special miniatures/upgrade kits for every Tom, Dick, and Harry Chapter).


  • Gamiel likes this

gallery_26_548_13550.pnggallery_26_6416_0.gifgallery_26_548_4494.pnggallery_26_6416_0.gifgallery_26_6764_14592.pnggallery_26_6764_3621.png


#5
Gederas

Gederas

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 5,986 posts
  • Location:Pawtucket, Rhode Island

I think the Japanese thing came from a /tg/ (4chan's Tabletop Games board) joke.

 

So here's the thing: Mantis Warriors are a White Scars successor. White Scars are Mongolian-themed, but also have a lot of "Generic Asian" traits in them. This lead to /tg/ making a joke on the fact that the Mantis Warriors are named after the Mantis. White Scars are noted to love bikes, and this seems to be the case with their successors in general. It's also stated (I'm unsure in which IA) that they named things after giant insects from their homeworld.

 

Bug named, likes bikes? That's Kamen Rider.

 

Hence the Samurai theming by the fans. It's the same reason as to why the Rainbow Warriors (for those who remember they exist) are depicted as Mesoamerican (there's apparently an Native American myth of a being called The Rainbow Warrior who will defend all life)


  • Gamiel likes this

#6
Gamiel

Gamiel

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 210 posts

I made some more diggining and it seems that this pic:

 

was commissioned for the Bell of Lost Soul Badab War fan supplement from 2009 (I think), one year before Imperial Armour vol. 9 - The Badab War - Part One came out (2010). It also seems that this pic is the oldest one of the ones I posted.

 

 

 

 

I think the Japanese thing came from a /tg/ (4chan's Tabletop Games board) joke.

 

So here's the thing: Mantis Warriors are a White Scars successor. White Scars are Mongolian-themed, but also have a lot of "Generic Asian" traits in them. This lead to /tg/ making a joke on the fact that the Mantis Warriors are named after the Mantis. White Scars are noted to love bikes, and this seems to be the case with their successors in general. It's also stated (I'm unsure in which IA) that they named things after giant insects from their homeworld.

 

Bug named, likes bikes? That's Kamen Rider.

 

Hence the Samurai theming by the fans. It's the same reason as to why the Rainbow Warriors (for those who remember they exist) are depicted as Mesoamerican (there's apparently an Native American myth of a being called The Rainbow Warrior who will defend all life)

An interesting theory but I don't think it hold since if we go by the fanart posted above so is the samurai theme the one that appear, not any Kamen Rider, or insect theme (beside their symbol). There is also no bikes.


Edited by Gamiel, 22 March 2021 - 10:14 AM.


#7
Lucien Eilam

Lucien Eilam

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,838 posts
  • Location:United Kingdom
  • Faction: Lightbringers

It's also stated (I'm unsure in which IA) that they named things after giant insects from their homeworld.

 

Sort of: IA10 says company markings are based on stylised insects from their primary training world (they recruited from across the cluster, no single homeworld), rather than naming. Although, the art department apparently didn't get the memo: all the colour plates are pretty much Codex standard.

 

No mention of bikes in IA10, their mobility seems to be based more on Thunderhawks, Rhinos and jump packs.

 

So, looks like that fan art was actually all based on White Scars successor + the Chapter icon = Kamen Rider, from before there was any real official lore to contradict it. As soon as there was, it was contradicted about as thoroughly as possible.


“In general, we have found that the more scenery you can place on the battlefield, the better the game will be.”

Lightbringers Space Marines


#8
Brother Tyler

Brother Tyler

    ++ FIDELIS MILITUS ++

  • +++ADMINISTRATUM+++
  • 22,755 posts
  • Location:The Temple of Oaths
  • Faction: VIIth Legion
If I recall correctly, mantidae was a term associated with the Mantis Warriors in Warrior Brood (the Deathwatch novel). I think it was some organization within the Chapter. In the real world, Mantidae is one of the largest families in the order of praying mantises. The source of information for the Chapter naming things after insects is probably that novel.

gallery_26_548_13550.pnggallery_26_6416_0.gifgallery_26_548_4494.pnggallery_26_6416_0.gifgallery_26_6764_14592.pnggallery_26_6764_3621.png


#9
Spinsanity

Spinsanity

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 924 posts
  • Location:Canadia

I made some more diggining and it seems that this pic:
[...]
was commissioned for the Bell of Lost Soul Badab War fan supplement from 2009 (I think), one year before Imperial Armour vol. 9 - The Badab War - Part One came out (2010). It also seems that this pic is the oldest one of the ones I posted.

Dammit, I've been trying to find a copy of that fan supplement and can't seem to find a working link anymore. Anyone managed to find one?

#10
Gamiel

Gamiel

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 210 posts

 

I made some more diggining and it seems that this pic:
[...]
was commissioned for the Bell of Lost Soul Badab War fan supplement from 2009 (I think), one year before Imperial Armour vol. 9 - The Badab War - Part One came out (2010). It also seems that this pic is the oldest one of the ones I posted.

Dammit, I've been trying to find a copy of that fan supplement and can't seem to find a working link anymore. Anyone managed to find one?

 

Here is the one I found: 101_badab-war-v1-0.pdf


Edited by Gamiel, 22 March 2021 - 03:06 PM.

  • Spinsanity likes this




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users