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Trouble with Drukhari


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#1
Mordas

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Greetings fellow Overlords,

 

First time posting in this sub section, but I have had a Necron army since the very first metal models where released way back in the day and after my tomb world took a small nap during 8th I managed to get a virtual game in recently (my first in 9th with the Necrons) and it was against the Drukhari.

 

Lets just say it didn't go according to plan, their speed is incredible and their CC just wiped my warriors out. I think I really struggled to destroy their raiders at long range to allow me any chance of shooting their wyches before they got into my lines.

 

So just reaching out to see if anyone else has gone up against the new Drukhari codex recently and how they dealt with them or just some suggestions at good long range firepower to take out vehicles.

 

We played at 1250pts and my list was:

 

Command Barge

Royal Warden - expecting to need to fall back and shoot

Technomancer

 

20 Warriors

10 Warriors

5 Immortals

 

Scarab swarm

 

Triarch Stalker

 

Lokhust Destroyers with a heavy destroyer

 

Any advice is appreciated :)


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#2
Plague _Lord

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I don't think you should have trouble with shooting raiders off the board with your army. Either you rolled really bad, your enemy rolled really well, or you had bad target priority. What you have should easily take down a raider or two in 2 turns (depending on who goes first).

 

Do you really need the technomancer? He's not buffing anything and a chronomancer would be much better choice for your list.


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#3
Mordas

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Thanks, so Turn 1 I couldnt get anything in range to shoot the Raiders and take them out 4/10 wounds done on one by the stalker but nothing else was in range.

 

Turn 1 Drukhari managed to get a large squad of Hellions into CC with my 20 man warriors and tie them up and by the time i dealt with them the 2nd wave rushed in. But even if I had taken out the raiders my turn 2 the wyches can move advance and charge so thinking I need something longer range to ensure the warriors arent hit straight away next time.

 

Been looking at the Doomstalker and the doomsday ark but the damage seems a bit swingy to me, not sure if anyone else had better luck?


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#4
Mandragola

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My advice against Drukhari would be to try and kill them in melee or with close range shooting. Accept that you're never going to be able to prevent them from charging you, because they can virtually do it from outside your range.

 

I think you want a force in two waves. Wave one goes forward to get the enemy out of their transports, either by destroying them or by forcing the enemy to charge. Wave two then shoots the enemy infantry dead.

 

You can use warriors for one of the waves or both. Things like skorpekh destroyers and wraiths can also do either job really well. Long-ranged shooting isn't all that great because the pesky elves can hide or stay locked in melee to avoid it.


Edited by Mandragola, 06 April 2021 - 03:27 PM.

C+C always welcome on my Titanic Plog. Should really be painting Crimson Fists.

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#5
Ahzek451

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An easy answer is to say "use the silent king", as his strike last ability will absolutely neuter their need to strike first.

 

A lot can depend on what your board looks like. You mentioned staying out of range, your opponent clearly knows how to play keep away from your guns and possibly out of line of sight. A doomstalker may be swingy, but its worth a shot getting a couple next to a control node. They are tall and will see over most terrain and the extra range vs. destroyers will help you out with your previous problem. 

How many scarabs did you have in your unit? A maxed out squad buffed from a chronomancer plus tomb spyder could be better road block than warriors. 

 

Also consider Countertemporal Nanomines on a cryptek. Nasty little shocker when a choppy dark eldar unit has its advance and charge rolls halved. 


Edited by Ahzek451, 06 April 2021 - 06:12 PM.


#6
Miek

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I haven't played against the new Drukhari codex and my 9th edition experience is limited, but I would try to use Novokh, replace the CCB with Anrakyr to boost the warriors to 3 attacks each, use the veil on the technomancer/chronomancer to disengage if necessary (and charge with +1 and reroll), and use scarabs (first wave) and/or the arcana suggested by Ahzek451.

I would avoid blast weapons, you'll likely get locked in melee and won't be able to use them (hence no DDA). The TS' dispersed heat ray is great for that, and I'm quite fond of the Tesseract ark.

Anyways, not much to say since I have zero experience against their new codex, but I will soon and I want to follow this discussion smile.png


Edited by Miek, 07 April 2021 - 02:03 AM.

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#7
Mordas

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Evening all,

 

Had a few more games on tabletop simulator and I must admit I am really struggling with the Necrons at the moment. I am not sure if its just down to the long gap in playing them between editions or just the tough opponents I have run into: Drukhari - 2 games, Death Guard x1 and I just lost a game against the Blood Angels.

 

So in the recent game against BA I took:

 

 

Command Barge with the Voltatic staff

2x Chronomancer - one with the Veil

 

2x 10 Man warrior squads with reapers

1x 5 Immortal squad

 

2x 5 Scarab Swarms

1x 5 Tomb Blades with Particle blasters, shield veins and shadowlooms

 

1x 4 Skorpeh Destroyers

 

1x Doomstalker

 

The BA had: Librarian, Sang Priest, Infiltrators, Assault Intercessors, Vet Vanguard with jump packs, 5 Death company, Blade Guards, bolter interceptors and an Invictor war suit.

 

In my turn 1 I managed to veil a squad of warriors over to his deploymnet, get the skorpehs into CC with his vanguard, get the CCB into combat with his infiltrators and got a squad of scarabs in CC with his invictor to tie it up.

 

The tomb blades took out 3/5 of the DC, the Skorpehs killed 3/5 of the vanguard and the warriors shooting with a few strats on top managed to kill just 2 of the intercessors. After each round he just took out more and more of my units and I didn't roll well on my reanimations either - got nothing back really T2 onward.

 

At 1250 points I am finding it really challenging to bring a list that can even do semi decently, the destroyers worked well in a few games and yeah think nothing in our Heavy Support section is actually worth bringing at this points level - which gives me seriously lacking on Anti Tank. The warriors just never seem to reliably get close to killing anything and just get wiped out in a few turns. The Doomstalker isnt worth it without good amount of screening and in smaller games just not enough bodies or way to do this.

 

Any suggestions on list ideas for 1250 points? any help will be really appreciated.


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#8
dice4thedicegod

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Combine the warriors into a unit of 20? Maybe a res orb?

Go for 5 or 6 skorpekh?

Is an unbuffed doomstalker pulling its weight ?
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#9
Mordas

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Combine the warriors into a unit of 20? Maybe a res orb?

Go for 5 or 6 skorpekh?

Is an unbuffed doomstalker pulling its weight ?

The doomstalker did not, I tried it one last time to see if one at the back for some anti tank and free overwatch support would work (Against the DG the free overwatch killed alot - but think more luck than anything).

 

I was running Battalion detachment hence the 3 troops, thought about swapping a chronomancer to royal warden with the veil to teleport and harass.

 

Also thought about replacing the Doomstalker with some Wraiths for more support with a good invulnerable save, leaving a Chronomancer with the Skorpehs to grant them the re-roll charges (with my rolling its needed) and the 5++


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#10
dice4thedicegod

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Combine the warriors into a unit of 20? Maybe a res orb?

Go for 5 or 6 skorpekh?

Is an unbuffed doomstalker pulling its weight ?

The doomstalker did not, I tried it one last time to see if one at the back for some anti tank and free overwatch support would work (Against the DG the free overwatch killed alot - but think more luck than anything).

I was running Battalion detachment hence the 3 troops, thought about swapping a chronomancer to royal warden with the veil to teleport and harass.

Also thought about replacing the Doomstalker with some Wraiths for more support with a good invulnerable save, leaving a Chronomancer with the Skorpehs to grant them the re-roll charges (with my rolling its needed) and the 5++
A couple of ideas:

1) I think you could run as a patrol... as both chronomancers take up a single slot (dynastic advisors)

2) yeah, the doom stalker seems very swingy... and is it needed in small games? Seemed to be infantry that is bugging you?

3) seems like bigger units will give you more bang for your buffs (my will be done, chrono, even a res orb)

Oh, what dynasty are you running?

Edited by dice4thedicegod, 20 April 2021 - 10:11 PM.


#11
Get Thokt

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Drukhari seem to be running havoc across the meta right now. I heard there were 13 (out of 26) undefeated Drukhari players from the GTs ran this week.

#12
Mordas

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So this game I was running Mephrit for a bit of extra range on the reapers.

 

Doomstalkers are out of my list at this points level now, for 2k games I can see them being more useful. Also thinking popping the Royal Warden into the list, maybe with the veil to get a big warrior blob into range. I liked my tomb blades and should maybe have used the 6's cause mortal wound strategy on them. - How do you guys run yours?

 

As for Drukhari when you do face them, just good luck. Maybe make sure your fall back and shoot protocol is for the 2nd turn cause you will need it :D


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#13
Miek

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For the tomb blades, you can run only one of them with Tesla and get the same benefit from the stratagem. I would thus run them all naked with gauss, except the one with Tesla, and upgrade them if I have spare points. I've seen people come up with optimized builds for the unit's upgrades though, for example (near the end): https://youtu.be/ObYnjOk98Ew

Have you tried blobs of 20 Novokh warriors, with or without Anrakyr?

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#14
Gloomfoe

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I just played a 25 PL crusade game vs the dark elves. I basically won in the first turn, but I would say I got really lucky. I ran an overlord, 20 warriors with flayers, and a canoptek doomstalker.
He had a raider full of kabalite warriors, a venom with an archon and 4 Sslyth.

I reduced his raider to 1 wound using the warriors, I spent two CP to give them auto-wounds on 6's, and exploding hits on 6's. I put 14 wounds on it with my Szerehkan reroll. My doomstalker rolled 5 attacks vs his venom and even though it was only hitting on 5's, I got 4 hits! They all wounded and three went through, killing it. My overlord then shot his tachyon arrow at the Raider with one wound, destroying it!
I used the Szerehkan WL trait that lets you take the same protocol twice, so for the first two rounds even if he had charged me he would've been eating overwatch on 5's from my doomstalker and warriors. A tactic I plan on using against dark elves in particular. I have two more doomstalkers I'm painting up to make this even more devastating.

Edited by Gloomfoe, 06 May 2021 - 09:05 AM.


#15
Prot

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I'm just back into 'crons after a long break from them. I do play against them a lot, and rarely lose (with something like.. White Scars) and the reason I mention this is the similarity in pressuring the Necron player.

 

I think one of the most basic utilitarian units for this job for necrons is the Scarabs. I do think they are a bit boring, but just the sheer speed and efficient blob of wounds really gets on the nerves of any assault based player that needs to reach you.

 

I have one guy in our main play group that plays a lot of his dark eldar... I can't say this is ever going to be an easy match up... so be fair to yourself here. It may be quite a steep learning curve with this match up.

 

On Doomstalkers... I have been using them since coming back to Crons. No one likes such spike driven random damage in competitive play, but what a great model.  I can't blame you for using them. :)


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#16
Captain Idaho

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If taking down vehicles is a problem then Heavy Destroyers can assist in filling the gap. Of course, they can be a target but that's what saturation is for.

They can leap from behind cover and get some shots on the right targets which is pretty much the requirement.
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#17
Karhedron

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I would agree that 1x20 warriors is better than 2x10 for reanimation purposes. Possibly you could switch to a Patrol detachment if you are struggling with a Battalion.

For anti-tank, I find that Lokhust Destroyers with Extermination Protocols are more than good enough for dealing with lighter vehicles. If someone brings a heavy tank in a 1250 point game, you may be better off ignoring it and focussing on the rest of the army.
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#18
Miek

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I'm tempted to try something along those lines (1k list), probably as conquerors/expansionists (patrol + fortification):

Chronomancer: Metalodermal Tesla Weave, Implacable Conqueror
Technomancer: Canoptek Cloak, Voltaic Staff
5x Immortals: Gauss Blasters
Triarch Stalker: Heat Ray
2x 9x Canoptek Scarab Swarm
Tesseract Ark: Gauss Cannons
Sentry Pylon: Heat Cannon

Apart from the SP, I think it provides generally poor targets to the drukhari player, is quite able to take care of their soft infantries and vehicles, and is able to score decently. The SP will likely be the priority target.

Do you think it makes sense?

I'm also tempted by rad wreathed and interplanetary invaders, but loosing objsec would probably hurt too much for scoring.

Edit: or rather the gauss exterminator for the Sentry pylon, and use that and the removal of the cryptek arcana to add 2 cryptothralls. Not sure if I should have posted this in the army lists instead, but it comes down to: I think lots of Scarabs, QS and SP could work fine against drukhari.

Edited by Miek, 05 May 2021 - 09:09 PM.

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#19
Gloomfoe

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I got a second game in with my necrons vs my buddy's drukhari. This time we upped the PL from 25, to 41(I'm playing what I have painted, it's a new army for me). And it was a Necron victory!

I played:
Szerehkan dynasty

HQ-Overlord(-1 dmg WL trait, voltaic staff relic, res orb)
HQ-Chronomancer(triarchs will WL trait, veil of darkness, entropic lance)

Troops-20 warriors with gauss flayers

Fast attack-3 scarabs
Fast attack-6 scarabs

Elites-2 Cryptothralls
Elites-canoptek reanimator

Heavy-Canoptek Doomstalker

He played a raider full of witches, a raider full of kabalite warriors, a venom, and 10 hellions. He also rocked an archon, and a succubus. His kabalite were the super poison cabal, and his witches were cult of strife.

We are playing crusade, and the mission we played forced us to put half our army in reserves. I think this favored me more than him, as his hellions and a raider full of witches had to sit out for a round or two and I just put my two scarabs, chronomancer, and thralls in. Meanwhile my doomstalker with an assist from my chronomancers entropic lance, popped his raider full of kabalites on turn 1(strategic reserves can come in turn 1 in crusade)
My strategy is to run protocol of the eternal guardian(5+ to hit in overwatch) for the first two rounds and keep my doomstalker close by to overwatch for free. This worked out vs his witches as I was able to kill 6 or so as they charged. Later we realized he could've avoided all overwatch with a 1 CP cult of strife stratagem. This might have swung things in his favor as those extra attacks would have most likely killed the squad. I'll probably have to change my strategy in the future. The more he relearns drukhari, the harder it's gonna be to pull off a victory, that's for sure.

Next game we are gonna up the PL to 55. I plan on bringing two 10man warrior squads(one with reapers) and either 3 more scarabs or drop 3 scarabs and bring a royal warden
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#20
Ahzek451

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I don't have the codex in front of me so I could  be wrong, but it would be comical to run an overwatch force and use  zahndrekh and shut down his deny overwatch strat. Deny his deny. heh.


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#21
Gloomfoe

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Haha, yep, that would totally work. Good catch. Sadly he's sautek only and we're doing crusade so I'm stuck with Szerehkan for now. Which, turns out, having a 5+++ vs MW is good vs drukhari




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