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Sisters of Battle datasheet leaks


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#51
quasistellar

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They very well could be giving them the space marine tank treatment: nerf it in to total uselessness.

 

I very much doubt that, though. As much as GW loves space marines, they also hate space marine tanks being good for some reason.

 

I would bet money that the Exorcist will end up being good, whether it’s due to indirect fire or a strat.


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#52
SkimaskMohawk

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Well marine vehicles paid the sin for of iron hands making them extremely good.

Exorcists were used up until the point where retributors the far superior choice, but it's kind of one or another due to the model range.

#53
MARK0SIAN

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Well marine vehicles paid the sin for of iron hands making them extremely good.

Exorcists were used up until the point where retributors the far superior choice, but it's kind of one or another due to the model range.


That’s the thing though, they adjusted an infantry units rules and abilities and made it a better choice for a job than the vehicle option. Now it’s likely these changes to the sisters codex were in the works before they had time to see exactly how effective their buffs to meltas etc would so they could’ve been nerfing the exorcist as another way of pushing the infantry alternative.

It’s just a theory though but it follows a general pattern of vehicles getting less effective whilst the infantry alternative is buffed.

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#54
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The funny thing is dreadnaughts are really good and can basically be played the same as a tank.
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#55
chapter master 454

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Ironic saying how SM tanks got the punishment when it was Iron Hand Dreadnoughts I remember being the hotness.

 

Then again, I remember doing the math-hammer on those Levi dreads...they could survive a max roll from a volcano lance (max roll as in maximum shots and maximum damage, still calculated hits, wounds and saves the same).

 

We'll see how it shakes out but if infantry are the go-to yet again, I will give you the past million editions where tanks were always garbage. This is coming from the tread-head who ran 3 land raiders into eldar brightlance spam back when lance was a thing! Was never about winning, was about showing how much needing to roll 4+ sucked!


I Chapter Master 454, Chapter Master of the Angels of Justice, Warboss of WAAAGH Gubskul, Commander of a Catachan Regiment, Phaeron of a Tomb World, Shas'O to a Cadre and Princeps of a lance of House Taranis hereby pledge that I will not take up any further models til all other prior have been fully built and painted to tabletop standards. There is no time limit for this task, there is no deadline. My oath is to solemnly complete the armies I have now, to see it that they can have their glory. Paint will be stripped from the old in need, thick may it be like ceramite I will see it removed so that plastic and metal alike may see light of new paint. Models yet to be, boxed and in darkness will be assembled with due care and attention. For this task I am permitted to still buy the supplies needed to do my task but not one model more.

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#56
Atrus

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Siiiigh...

Prepare and expect the worst that way you can't be disappointed.

Exorcist nerfs kick in the guts. That ap nerf hurts. Expect it to still be direct fire and the same cost as is now. GW can't have the exorcist in the way of the predator sales. Kick it down hard enough and they won't have to really try with the predator rules.

/salt
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#57
Montford

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Conflagration rockets will likely be the way to go on the Exorcist (if the Castigator's stats are what I think they will be). Basically it looks like the rockets are now an extended range, high rate of fire heavy bolter.


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#58
SkimaskMohawk

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Ironic saying how SM tanks got the punishment when it was Iron Hand Dreadnoughts I remember being the hotness.

Then again, I remember doing the math-hammer on those Levi dreads...they could survive a max roll from a volcano lance (max roll as in maximum shots and maximum damage, still calculated hits, wounds and saves the same).

We'll see how it shakes out but if infantry are the go-to yet again, I will give you the past million editions where tanks were always garbage. This is coming from the tread-head who ran 3 land raiders into eldar brightlance spam back when lance was a thing! Was never about winning, was about showing how much needing to roll 4+ sucked!


Before the nerfs to feiros it was iron air and before the supplements the executioner was played a decent amount too with just the iron hands chapter tactic.

#59
chapter master 454

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Ironic saying how SM tanks got the punishment when it was Iron Hand Dreadnoughts I remember being the hotness.

Then again, I remember doing the math-hammer on those Levi dreads...they could survive a max roll from a volcano lance (max roll as in maximum shots and maximum damage, still calculated hits, wounds and saves the same).

We'll see how it shakes out but if infantry are the go-to yet again, I will give you the past million editions where tanks were always garbage. This is coming from the tread-head who ran 3 land raiders into eldar brightlance spam back when lance was a thing! Was never about winning, was about showing how much needing to roll 4+ sucked!


Before the nerfs to feiros it was iron air and before the supplements the executioner was played a decent amount too with just the iron hands chapter tactic.

 

 

I would contend that the Executioner was only making rounds because it had fly, like basically all tanks that got played competitively (or they had a rule to fall back and still shoot) and the Iron Air was flyers, not tanks really. And lets be real, flyers will ether be trash or busted with little inbetween sadly. It does somewhat show how poorly tanks do in general and the trend does continue by the seems. Really at this point it would be nice to have tanks be busted tier for an edition at least for most factions...would make a nice change of seeing masses of soldiers. Would certainly help the tournament scene and people being worried about time :D


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I Chapter Master 454, Chapter Master of the Angels of Justice, Warboss of WAAAGH Gubskul, Commander of a Catachan Regiment, Phaeron of a Tomb World, Shas'O to a Cadre and Princeps of a lance of House Taranis hereby pledge that I will not take up any further models til all other prior have been fully built and painted to tabletop standards. There is no time limit for this task, there is no deadline. My oath is to solemnly complete the armies I have now, to see it that they can have their glory. Paint will be stripped from the old in need, thick may it be like ceramite I will see it removed so that plastic and metal alike may see light of new paint. Models yet to be, boxed and in darkness will be assembled with due care and attention. For this task I am permitted to still buy the supplies needed to do my task but not one model more.

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#60
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I am entertained folks say “9” nerfs tank when half the point was BigGuns never tire and other things.
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#61
Seahawk

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I am entertained folks say “9” nerfs tank when half the point was BigGuns never tire and other things.

Both are right. 8th and 9th really ramped up the damage output of units to the point where land raiders get 1-shotted by a unit half it's points. The problem is they didn't also extend vehicle life when they switched over to HP instead the tables. You want battle tanks to be tough? Give them more wounds. If the ratio was the same as how it is in Dawn of War (1), then predators would have 25 wounds and land raiders would have 40. Those are more appropriate numbers IMO and would be better for the game.

Until then, it's infantry all day every day as the best units to take.
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#62
TheFinisher4Ever

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I'm skeptical that GW is nerfing the Exorcist in order to sell the new tank because I don't think the new tank is going to have the same role. So far, the new tank appears to have either a battle cannon or an auto cannon for it's main weapon. Neither one of those weapons is particularly good at anti tank. In fact both are much better at killing MEQs. So if GWs intention was to nerf the Exorcist in order to sell more of the new tank, why did they buff the conflagration rockets, which now actually do compete with the new tank now?
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Ad Mech - 5,000 points

Blood Angels - 12,000 points

Dark Angels - 6,500 points

Deathwatch - 3,000 points

Eldar - 18,500 points

Imperial Fists - 5,000 points

Imperial Guard - 1,000 points

Grey Knights - 6,500 points

Sisters of Battle - 4,000 points

 


#63
Jorin Helm-splitter

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9th edition as a whole seems to want to push infantry over vehicles anyway so it could be the changes to the exorcist are just a symptom of that. Certainly for marines and sisters the infantry (and bikes) do a better job in any role than pretty much any tank they have access to. Add in the fact that vehicles without an invulnerable are very easy to kill and 9th edition is simply not a kind edition for vehicles. This seems like a design intent so my money is on any changes stemming from that more than anything else.

 

 

 

 

I think its a little early to draw conclusions about what they're going for in 9th. We've had as many space marine supplements released as codex, this next stretch of releases with Admech, Orks, and SoB will tell us a lot. That said we need to look for trends based on all the information. For example if the Exorcist has lost some stats, but is priced aggressively for what you get it may be a net buff instead of a nerf. We also don't know how much the next chapter approved mission pack will change things up, whether it'll be a revision or if we'll see some missions that are kinder to castle armies (the Exorcists natural habitat).  

 

I'm skeptical that GW is nerfing the Exorcist in order to sell the new tank because I don't think the new tank is going to have the same role. So far, the new tank appears to have either a battle cannon or an auto cannon for it's main weapon. Neither one of those weapons is particularly good at anti tank. In fact both are much better at killing MEQs. So if GWs intention was to nerf the Exorcist in order to sell more of the new tank, why did they buff the conflagration rockets, which now actually do compete with the new tank now?

 

Totally agree with this point, and would add that the Exorcist is still a really young kit they aren't going to want to hurt it's sales. That said I could see them deciding that both tanks needed to be either T8 or T7 and went with T7. It'll be interesting to see how the two tanks coexist though. 



#64
Umbros

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The issue with the exorcist is that it was doing all the long range heavy lifting for the army due to lack of options. Now there will be more (not all models have been revealed...) then it can be given a more specific role.


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#65
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Repressors would be CRAZY broken with MM Rets. Even Melta Doms.

Just make it a rule that the firing ports can accomodate only bolt weapon fire. Bang, done. Still good, not broken tho.



#66
SkimaskMohawk

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The issue with the exorcist is that it was doing all the long range heavy lifting for the army due to lack of options. Now there will be more (not all models have been revealed...) then it can be given a more specific role.


The lack of options was deliberate to balance out their huge short range damage. Back in the days you'd see jump pack canonnesses with evicserators, sob squads just ignoring armour and getting 3+ invul and the large amount of melta the faction is known for. The minutia of whats strong has changed, but the faction still represents that huge close range spike damage with very little ranged support. I feel like in adding more long range support they're going to have to nerf the close range to even things out (past the nerfs necessary for the high performance of certain units like retributors).

#67
ThePenitentOne

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Well, that's an interesting thought.

 

So we have three tanks now, so we need to nerf short range. Funny, I tried scrolling through the ten pages of Marine options to count their tanks, but I kept losing count; three tanks? Don't they have 3 Gladiators alone?

 

That explains why GW had to nerf their short/ medium range... Oh wait, Gw never did that.

 

As for Jump Cannonesses with Eviscerators... Not since 2017.


Edited by ThePenitentOne, 11 April 2021 - 04:46 PM.


#68
Emicus

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Well, that's an interesting thought.

So we have three tanks now, so we need to nerf short range. Funny, I tried scrolling through the ten pages of Marine options to count their tanks, but I kept losing count; three tanks? Don't they have 3 Gladiators alone?

That explains why GW had to nerf their short/ medium range... Oh wait, Gw never did that.

It's three gladiators in the same vein guard has seven leman russes.

You'd count the Immolator three times, exorcist twice and the new tank 2+(?) for 7 vehicles total.

T7 or T8 on artillery doesn't matter much. Maybe that allowed them to not bump the price? Or give it LOS shooting? Or it doesn't have the additional armour t8 typically has? Who knows, could even be a typo.

Edited by Emicus, 11 April 2021 - 04:50 PM.

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#69
SkimaskMohawk

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Well, that's an interesting thought.

So we have three tanks now, so we need to nerf short range. Funny, I tried scrolling through the ten pages of Marine options to count their tanks, but I kept losing count; three tanks? Don't they have 3 Gladiators alone?

That explains why GW had to nerf their short/ medium range... Oh wait, Gw never did that.

As for Jump Cannonesses with Eviscerators... Not since 2017.


Yes, I understand that the jump cannoness with evicserator is an old build. So was the 3rd edition ignore armour saves from the passion. But if you read what I wrote, I noted that the details changed while the effectiveness of the faction to excel at close range didn't.

Comparing sisters of battle to space marines is odd. The latter have always been presented as a jack of all trades army; kind of comparing two different design paradigms. SoB would be gaining something they never really had before, while marines didn't get their options expanded with their new tanks; attack bikes, predators and land speeders fill the same niche as the new vehicles (which also suck, not helping matters). It's also important to note that marines lost a lot of power with their 9th edition codex; both their melee and their shooting got toned down due to Core and changes to stratagems, special rules and points.

#70
ThePenitentOne

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It's three gladiators in the same vein guard has seven leman russes.

You'd count the Immolator three times, exorcist twice and the new tank 2+(?) for 7 vehicles total.

T7 or T8 on artillery doesn't matter much. Maybe that allowed them to not bump the price? Or give it LOS shooting? Or it doesn't have the additional armour t8 typically has? Who knows, could even be a typo.

 

 

Immos, as transports don't need the datasheets to separate out the variants, because they're immune to Ro3. Exorcists, as heavy support, would definitely benefit from being 2 different cards, because you could take 3 of EACH if you wanted. Now I hate Primaris tank models, so even though I own the dex, I never bothered looking up whether they are heavy or transport.

 

But let me take a shot at this, assuming we DON'T count variant kits:

 

Gladiator

Impulsor

Whirlwind

Predator

Land Raider

Razorback

Hunter/ Stalker

 

Gee, you're right; when I write it without the variants, the Sisters do have the same amount of options... Oh wait, nope, Marines STILL have more than twice as many kits. I suppose the suggestions for Nerfing their mid/short range game are immanent then. 

 

Yes, I understand that the jump cannoness with evicserator is an old build. So was the 3rd edition ignore armour saves from the passion. But if you read what I wrote, I noted that the details changed while the effectiveness of the faction to excel at close range didn't.

Comparing sisters of battle to space marines is odd. The latter have always been presented as a jack of all trades army; kind of comparing two different design paradigms. SoB would be gaining something they never really had before, while marines didn't get their options expanded with their new tanks; attack bikes, predators and land speeders fill the same niche as the new vehicles (which also suck, not helping matters). It's also important to note that marines lost a lot of power with their 9th edition codex; both their melee and their shooting got toned down due to Core and changes to stratagems, special rules and points.

 

 

Yes, I see now how Assault Intercessors, Bladeguard, and Outriders didn't improve short and medium range performance and options for Marines at all. Especially since being Jack of all Trades means that while all their units are good, none of them are great, where specialist armies will be great at their "thing" and weaker in areas outside their specializations- which is why Fire Dragons and Dominions kick the crap out of Eradicators... Oh wait, they don't?

 

(Sorry to be such a rude and snippy poster.... This is B&C... Safe space... Allow me to dial it back)

 

To be fair, Rets DO kick the crap out of Eradicators, and Sisters are performing well in tournies right now... And if that's the measure of whether or not we're fine, rather than how many options we have, then I guess you're right... We are... Fine... I guess?

 

But when I look at someone's 5k SM collection, where they've actually built whole companies just as a modelling project, and it looks great because they have 100+ kits to choose from, I wonder what it would look like if I felt like building a Preceptory that includes one or two complete Commanderies with my mere 34 kits. 

 

And I know- flagship faction and all that; people will argue that only Marines could sell 100+ kits, but I've never been sure about that, because I would buy them. I want an Abbess, a Cannoness Superia for each Order, a Cannoness Preceptor, a Cannoness Commander; I want Novitiates, Frateris Militia, Flyers...

And I know I'll never get all of that, or even half of it. But the four units I know I'm getting brings me closer, and quite frankly the suggestion that I need to have my entire army nerfed because I should only be able to have a single unit with a range greater than 36"... well, it got under my skin a bit, so sarcasm happened.

 

As always... Peace, and Respect.


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#71
TrawlingCleaner

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As nothing new has come about, I'll close this thread for now. If anything new comes to light, report the thread or shoot us a PM.


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