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WD Fallen Rules Soon?


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#26
Noserenda

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Well they currently keep both keywords unless you take their special detachment to get sorcerers and rhinos (Plus a worthless relic and a Cypher not-warlord trait). Some version of that could be interesting, with different options for Imperium and Chaos.

Though both should get rhinos, its insane they cant just take rhinos!

Actually just getting a proper Fallen datasheet rather than a Chosen reskin would be good, let them play with the options a little. 


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#27
Jings

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Well they currently keep both keywords unless you take their special detachment to get sorcerers and rhinos (Plus a worthless relic and a Cypher not-warlord trait). Some version of that could be interesting, with different options for Imperium and Chaos.

Though both should get rhinos, its insane they cant just take rhinos!

Actually just getting a proper Fallen datasheet rather than a Chosen reskin would be good, let them play with the options a little. 

 

Eh I dunno about that. The Chosen loadout is easily the most flexible unit for CSM infantry. If they were to make Fallen like the current Chosen (basically same as before, but with a Melee weapon) with +1 A/W, they'd be golden. 



#28
Noserenda

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Actually just getting a proper Fallen datasheet rather than a Chosen reskin would be good, let them play with the options a little. 

 

Eh I dunno about that. The Chosen loadout is easily the most flexible unit for CSM infantry. If they were to make Fallen like the current Chosen (basically same as before, but with a Melee weapon) with +1 A/W, they'd be golden. 

 

I wouldnt look to take anything away, as a ragged band of individuals id like to avoid "and then 7 mook fallen with boltguns" wherever possible! They cant however take all the options in the "Fallen" kit so adding stuff like Shields and Stormbolters from that, Plasma cannons which were rare in the traitor legions at large but Iconic for the 1st, (Maybe even some of their more esoteric gear but thats reaching :D )  stuff like that (im sure there is some other things ive forgotten.

In an ideal world maybe even mixed units like Deathwatch but i really doubt that would happen given the way the mixed Deathwatch teams now work mixing lots of datasheets rather than producing a unique one.

 


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#29
Daemon Prince Marbas

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Honestly, I'm going to be the hopeless optimist and pray that the Fallen have at least a warlord Trait, relic, psychic discipline, stratagems, and maybe rules to make a full fledged army.
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#30
Tokugawa

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Well they currently keep both keywords unless you take their special detachment to get sorcerers and rhinos (Plus a worthless relic and a Cypher not-warlord trait). Some version of that could be interesting, with different options for Imperium and Chaos.

Though both should get rhinos, its insane they cant just take rhinos!

Actually just getting a proper Fallen datasheet rather than a Chosen reskin would be good, let them play with the options a little.


Eh I dunno about that. The Chosen loadout is easily the most flexible unit for CSM infantry. If they were to make Fallen like the current Chosen (basically same as before, but with a Melee weapon) with +1 A/W, they'd be golden.

Loyalist company veterans has almost identical weapon options as chosen,are W2, and they have STORM SHIELDS. And they are still not "golden" enough.

They've seen competitive play, but usually only used as 2-men action performers.

#31
Plaguecaster

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Yeah getting rules for fallen may be cool but would it be that hard for gw to actually put an updated wound faq for CSM who are being left out in a WD for a change instead
Like literally it'd olby be a couple of pages if they can put effort into index rules it shouldnt be that damn hard or at least tell us when chaos is getting their codex next

Edited by Plaguecaster, 19 April 2021 - 07:29 PM.

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#32
Shinespider

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Just a little note, this is the entire last page of the WD:

 

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#33
Noserenda

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Arrr :D Leaks is good!

Those could be studio minis, (Rather than someone's own) it certainly looks like the Studio Cypher from his basing. Looks like a box of Mk4 and a box of Company Veterans roughly bashed together, thus all the basic bolter bodies. No Chaos bits at all though interestingly, or new options from the Company Vets box.



#34
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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Arrr biggrin.png Leaks is good!

Those could be studio minis, (Rather than someone's own) it certainly looks like the Studio Cypher from his basing. Looks like a box of Mk4 and a box of Company Veterans roughly bashed together, thus all the basic bolter bodies. No Chaos bits at all though interestingly, or new options from the Company Vets box.

Looks like the same dudes they showed with the new Cypher when he first debuted at the end of 7th.



#35
jaxom

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They are; kitbashed from the Dark Angel Veterans and various HH plastics.


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#36
Master Sheol

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Confirmed
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#37
mithrilforge

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Well I gave up playing Dark Angels for the dark Gods sweat.gif ....Soooo I do have some spare firstborn angels bits laying about, It will be good to be able to use em to add to my Black legion force... msn-wink.gif  I always need some one else to send into the breach before my chosen lads... happy.png  

 

Mithril 

 

++EDIT++ This means i better get myself a Cypher model then  laugh.png


Edited by mithrilforge, 26 April 2021 - 03:54 AM.

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#38
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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Well I gave up playing Dark Angels for the dark Gods sweat.gif ....Soooo I do have some spare firstborn angels bits laying about, It will be good to be able to use em to add to my Black legion force... msn-wink.gif I always need some one else to send into the breach before my chosen lads... happy.png

Mithril

++EDIT++ This means i better get myself a Cypher model then laugh.png


And even if that doesn't work out, the BL have a whole warband of Dark Angels called the Black Lions. They're in the Black Legion novels.
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#39
Doghouse

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I want to see if they have two wounds.


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#40
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

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I want to see if they have two wounds.

Me too. That would be funny if they were the first Heretic Astartes/CSM to get the extra wounds outside Death Guard.


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#41
Cheex

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I want to see if they have two wounds.

Unlikely. My guess is that it'll be like the Index Astartes articles - so, a new Legion Trait (including an update to allow FALLEN to be used as a Legion Trait) and a handful of Warlord Traits, Relics and Stratagems.

 

I'd say they want to keep it forwards compatible with the next CSM codex, but IIRC there was a Loyalist chapter that got an Index Astartes article a couple of months before being invalidated when their codex got redone, so maybe not...


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#42
techsoldaten

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Here's my wishlist for the article, which means nothing here will happen.

 

- Rules for Luther. He escaped from Caliban, put him into the game.

 

- Rules for Luther's Retinue. Give Fallen their own Deathwing Knights.

 

- New datasheet for Cypher. Make him buff Fallen like Abaddon buffs Black Legion, leadership and rerolls.

 

- New datasheet for Fallen. Give them 2 wounds and access to more heavy weapons than a Plasma Cannon.

 

- Rules for Marbas. He can slip past Void Shields and teleport units at a whim. Makes him unique as a Daemon Prince.

 

- Rules for Fallen Ravenwing. No reason they could not have bikes.

 

- Legion Trait, WLTs, Stratagems, Relics. Fill them out as a Legion.


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#43
Petitioner's City

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I don't think Luther will - or should - have rules in 40k. I'd rather see where Gav or other authors take him following that wonderful novella.

More of a sense of the Order and Caliban in the rules would be nice - although of course what form that is depends on the writers of the index article. Having the ability to go full corruption and/or barely changed from 30k would be intriguing.

But without new minis, I imagine this will not be very different from past limited rulesets.
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#44
davextreme

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I’d love to see the list of units allowed from the Chaos Codex expanded. It could certainly be done while allowing forward-compatibility with the eventual book. Not sure how likely I’d rank this, but allowing the Fallen keyword to be put on Chaos Lords, Sorcerers, Chaos Marine troops, maybe Cultists, Terminators, maybe Bikes, Rhinos, and Predators seems reasonable enough to easily allow 50 power Crusade forces. Would be a way to shift some Forgeworld tanks and Heresy kits.



#45
Shinespider

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How many Fallen are there supposed to be, anyway? I always got the feeling that it was a handful of time-lost wanderers, not that there were entire warbands of them running around. 


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#46
davextreme

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The Dark Angels Legion had as many as 200,000 marines (source). I don’t think a full half fell and a large number of them didn’t survive the battle on Caliban, but there were certainly thousands of them.

 

Then there’s Ezekiel’s vision in the codex that Luther has been rebuilding the force.

 

But yes, I agree that story-wise they’re typically depicted as working alone or in small groups.


Edited by davextreme, 26 April 2021 - 01:22 PM.

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#47
Gederas

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How many Fallen are there supposed to be, anyway? I always got the feeling that it was a handful of time-lost wanderers, not that there were entire warbands of them running around. 

The Dark Angels Legion had as many as 200,000 marines (source). I don’t think a full half fell and a large number of them didn’t survive the battle on Caliban, but there were certainly thousands of them.

 

Then there’s Ezekiel’s vision in the codex that Luther has been rebuilding the force.

 

But yes, I agree that story-wise they’re typically depicted as working alone or in small groups.

Iirc, Luther had around 40,000 Marines on Caliban that he kept from the Crusade/Heresy. Of those, the ones that were loyal to him numbered a little more than half of those. If we assumed a large amount died during the battle on Caliban, there's probably at most around 10,000 Fallen. That's counting both the "Full on Traitors" and the "Morose and repentant, but not for the Imperium" ones


Edited by Gederas, 26 April 2021 - 01:48 PM.

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#48
techsoldaten

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How many Fallen are there supposed to be, anyway? I always got the feeling that it was a handful of time-lost wanderers, not that there were entire warbands of them running around. 

The Dark Angels Legion had as many as 200,000 marines (source). I don’t think a full half fell and a large number of them didn’t survive the battle on Caliban, but there were certainly thousands of them.

 

Then there’s Ezekiel’s vision in the codex that Luther has been rebuilding the force.

 

But yes, I agree that story-wise they’re typically depicted as working alone or in small groups.

Iirc, Luther had around 40,000 Marines on Caliban that he kept from the Crusade/Heresy. Of those, the ones that were loyal to him numbered a little more than half of those. If we assumed a large amount died during the battle on Caliban, there's probably at most around 10,000 Fallen. That's counting both the "Full on Traitors" and the "Morose and repentant, but not for the Imperium" ones

 

 

Take that figure and assume many did not survive being thrown through the Warp.

 

I imagine there are around 2 or 3 Legions worth left in the entire galaxy, scattered at different points in time. Meaning finding one is rare, and finding a few of them working together is exceedingly rare.

 

That said... Cypher is a lightning rod, they'd find reasons to rally around him.


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#49
Noserenda

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The Battle for Caliban didnt involve much battling, rather a huge bombardment so its entirely possible a significant percentage of the 40,000 survived to get whipped away, they are spread over time and space though which is more of a limit in theory, but as time goes on more and more of them are inevitably going to coalesce, which seems to be whats happening last time the plot looked in on them.

Tbh if Biles specific warband or a reinforced company can get legion rules there is no reason the Fallen cant and between their issued gear on Caliban (Even if they lost anything they werent carrying) and plenty of time to scavenge since they should be able to field the full Chaos armoury, possibly minus daemon stuff. 



#50
Hathor42

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I remember back in 3rd edition they had a whole hunt for the fallen campaign online. It was pretty cool.




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