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Drukhari FAQ


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36 replies to this topic

#26
jeremy1391

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“FAQ” 😂

#27
Tokugawa

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Dallas Open. The biggest event since 2021, 170+ players.

Drukhari grabbed top #1-#5. Yeah, not one, not two, not three...

So the question is not whether, not when, nor how Drukhari would be FAQed. It's about how many times it need to be FAQed in 2021.

Edited by Tokugawa, 03 May 2021 - 04:08 AM.

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#28
excelite

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Unpopular opinion:

Once, after all 9th ed codices are available… (aside from obvious errors like the ones that got fixed)
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#29
SkimaskMohawk

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Unpopular opinion:

Once, after all 9th ed codices are available… (aside from obvious errors like the ones that got fixed)


Here's the issue, or rather two issues with that mindset.

The first is that dark eldar aren't the first codex of 9th. This isn't "let's see how the power level of the new editions codexes are before nerfing" ; we've had marines, necrons, BA, SW, DW, DA, death guard and now dark eldar. They're the eighth release and are by far the strongest among their peers, which ranged from "okay" up to "multiple tournament wins" .

That kind of dove tails into the second issue of relative power levels of 9th edition codexes. A lot of them were strong, but none of them were able to dislodge sororitas and harlequins from the top. In other words, 9th was trying to level the playing field while reigning in the power of previously busted codexes (look at marine tournament win rates pre and post 9th codex). Dark eldar instead just dominated; from goonhammer's data the win rate gap between DE and sob/harlies (1st and 2nd/3rd) is as much that between those two and gsc (2nd/3rd and 33rd/last). The closest comparable thing to dark eldar is og iron hands who had 78% win rate after the mirror match compared to dark eldar's 74.8%.

If any one was on the iron hand/marine nerf train, I better see them on this one too.
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#30
WarriorFish

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As I've yet to delve into DE lists can someone provide a quick summary of what's in vogue for these top finishing lists to dominate so well? Hopefully there can be some correction soon, as I don't want to finally get my DE on the table with meaning only to have lopsided games (or people not want them). That said, this probably won't be for a while so I have time :P


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#31
excelite

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Unpopular opinion:

Once, after all 9th ed codices are available… (aside from obvious errors like the ones that got fixed)

Here's the issue, or rather two issues with that mindset.

The first is that dark eldar aren't the first codex of 9th. This isn't "let's see how the power level of the new editions codexes are before nerfing" ; we've had marines, necrons, BA, SW, DW, DA, death guard and now dark eldar. They're the eighth release and are by far the strongest among their peers, which ranged from "okay" up to "multiple tournament wins" .

That kind of dove tails into the second issue of relative power levels of 9th edition codexes. A lot of them were strong, but none of them were able to dislodge sororitas and harlequins from the top. In other words, 9th was trying to level the playing field while reigning in the power of previously busted codexes (look at marine tournament win rates pre and post 9th codex). Dark eldar instead just dominated; from goonhammer's data the win rate gap between DE and sob/harlies (1st and 2nd/3rd) is as much that between those two and gsc (2nd/3rd and 33rd/last). The closest comparable thing to dark eldar is og iron hands who had 78% win rate after the mirror match compared to dark eldar's 74.8%.

If any one was on the iron hand/marine nerf train, I better see them on this one too.

Little disclaimer: I just rejoined a couple of months before 9th dropped.

While I‘m sure the numbers you quoted are correct, for me the issue is a little bit different.

The current 9th Edition armies seem to play quite similar and now a unique/different playstyle that feasts on the established Style got thrown into the mix.

To me it seems GW wants to diversify the core strategies/mechanics a faction is played with. This actually looks interesting to me and I’d like to see it play out fully before I‘d go in and nerf/buff anything in a big way.

But that‘s just my opinion, not that it really matters ;)

#32
SkimaskMohawk

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Well you're not exactly wrong. Out of the books releases, 6 are marine content in some way which is obviously a similar playstyle outside some fringe builds. Death guard and necrons can trend to slow moving bricks of infantry or fast multiwound melee units. Dark eldar do have a very unique playstyle compared to all of those, and I honestly enjoy playing against it a lot.

But, the faction is a little too undercosted. You get so much stuff that being kind of fragile doesn't matter; you send wave after wave of great damage dealers in and your opponent can't deal with it. That and the razorflail succubus and possibly the phantom grenade launcher trick are the only real problems imo, not the actual concept or play style.

#33
TrawlingCleaner

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Personally I don't think much needs to be changed to bring the down the rankings in a way that doesn't absolutely cripple them, it might need to be over a couple of FAQs to get them to the right spot. With 9th edition Points changes being free and more frequent (supposedly), I can see Dark Eldar getting slowed. As it is at the moment, it feels like DE lists have about 200 points spare, they can afford to trade units with no real downsides.

 

Dark Technomancers - Remove the interaction with auto hit weapons, even taking wounds on a roll of one won't matter and isn't enough of a change, IMO. There's a reason they're in every comp list

 

Razorflail Succubus - Just a clarification on how the warlord trait interacts with weapons, it probably isn't intended to allow failed wounds to duplicate hits

 

Points changes across the board - The majority of the book is undercosted, plain and simple. Wyches, Succubus, Archon, Incubi, Raiders, Dark Lances are the main ones that need an increase. I would also say that Phantasm Grenade launchers also need a slight points increase, they're taken in every list on most vehicles/units that can take them as they're essentially a free smite

 

I do think that DE are overtuned and undercosted which make them overpowered, but not inherently overpowered, the book is relatively balanced with the above tweaks made would ,IMO, sort them entirely. Even after FAQs and points changes I think they'll still hard counter Marines of all colours, which they should. Of course, GW could smack them with the balance mallet and ruin them entirely but only time will tell


Edited by TrawlingCleaner, 04 May 2021 - 08:06 AM.


#34
Bung

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Its just a turney problem.
Most people play Marines with small multiwound Squads but the Dark Eldar armies play with bigger single wound squads.
So stuff that works against Marines doesnt work that good against Dark Eldar.
But if you tailor your list against Dark Eldar you lose against other Marines.
But its easier for Dark Eldar to specialise against Marines as there are not enough other factions.

To much Marines and similar armies and one that plays different will lead to something like that.

Would there be more different armies this wouldn happen.

Edited by Bung, 04 May 2021 - 08:34 AM.


#35
TrawlingCleaner

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I agree that it's a larger problem in Tournaments to a certain extent but this is definitely an issue in all games. They're too cheap with only one army that can counter them consistently well (Admech) where they counter pretty much every other army and play the objectives better than nearly all other armies. When in beer and pretzels game with unoptimised lists, most armies will struggle. With a points increase across the board you sort most of the casual player's issues, IMO


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#36
SkimaskMohawk

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Its just a turney problem.
Most people play Marines with small multiwound Squads but the Dark Eldar armies play with bigger single wound squads.
So stuff that works against Marines doesnt work that good against Dark Eldar.
But if you tailor your list against Dark Eldar you lose against other Marines.
But its easier for Dark Eldar to specialise against Marines as there are not enough other factions.

To much Marines and similar armies and one that plays different will lead to something like that.

Would there be more different armies this wouldn happen.


Most lists don't build to specifically counter marines. Marines were underrepresented compared to their codex saturation and haven't been the faction to beat for a while. It was still harlequins and sororitas with the runner ups being custodes, necrons, daemons, death guard and then black templars.

#37
G8Keeper

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It will be interesting to see the results of a few later tournaments after people have seen the winning lists and built counters into their own.


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