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New Codex Cover & 9th Ed Speculation/Rumours

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#26
Ahzek451

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Beat me to it. Subtle but interesting changes. Add in that the tzaangor changed the icon of flame to herd banner.

Also I wonder how magnus will pan out. A whole 40 pts cheaper than mortarion. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

The hades autocannon now has a heavy hades autocannon. Makes me feel that there will finally be a difference between the bigger one carried by the forgefiend and the small one on the heldrake.

Still only dont have access to combi plas, but can take plasma pistols...lol

Edited by Ahzek451, 30 May 2021 - 10:11 PM.


#27
Irate Khornate

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Beat me to it. Subtle but interesting changes. Add in that the tzaangor changed the icon of flame to herd banner.

Also I wonder how magnus will pan out. A whole 40 pts cheaper than mortarion. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

The hades autocannon now has a heavy hades autocannon. Makes me feel that there will finally be a difference between the bigger one carried by the forgefiend and the small one on the heldrake.

Still only dont have access to combi plas, but can take plasma pistols...lol


I would bet money that the points difference means Magnus still doesn't have 2 swing options in melee at least.

#28
Marshal Loss

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Worth noting that as Orks don't have their new points in the MFM (but TS & GK do), TS + GK will presumably be the next book(s), not Orks. Hopefully they preview the battle box soon


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#29
Hathor42

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So a 90pt character probably won't do much sadly for that cost.

 

A box of upgrades probably only for your warlord and maybe able to give to another exalted as a stratagem.

 

That's all we get for our new book? Ugh such a missed opportunity again. 

 

Cheaper tzaangors just means less rubrics will see play. You don't need two wounds when you can get more bodies on the objectives.

 

I guess my last hope will be a stratagem to turn a hellbrute into a psyker.  



#30
Archaeinox

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wow Legion Command upgrades?!


Edited by Archaeinox, 31 May 2021 - 01:19 AM.

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#31
Ahzek451

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Cheaper tzaangors just means less rubrics will see play. You don't need two wounds when you can get more bodies on the objectives.

Perhaps, we still have no idea what changes the rubrics and all is dust will undergo. It could be a complete rework to durability. Tho goats may fall fast while the rubricae hold firm. Or GW could disappoint with little to worse change haha.

GW, like Tzeentch are fickle. At least when the psychic awakening book for us dropped it FELT like they acknowledged that the fans wanted more rubric love and less goat love. Hopefully this remains.

Edited by Ahzek451, 31 May 2021 - 03:14 AM.

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#32
Tokugawa

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Max size of 10, is to limit the potential profit of one strategem from one big unit. It is too complex and annoying to add multiple paragraphs like "if used on unit with 10 power level or less, this strategem cost 1cp, else 2cp", to the codex.

#33
Marshal Loss

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Cheaper tzaangors just means less rubrics will see play. You don't need two wounds when you can get more bodies on the objectives.
 

Perhaps, we still have no idea what changes the rubrics and all is dust will undergo. It could be a complete rework to durability. Tho goats may fall fast while the rubricae hold firm. Or GW could disappoint with little to worse change haha.

GW, like Tzeentch are fickle. At least when the psychic awakening book for us dropped it FELT like they acknowledged that the fans wanted more rubric love and less goat love. Hopefully this remains.

 

There's also a strong possibility that there will be limits on how many Tzaangors/Cultists you can take, just like there is in the DG book with Poxwalkers/Cultists.


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#34
BoomWolf

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I have to wonder why enlightened are suddenly limited to 6 though.

Of all things, this confuses the most, as it does not seem to make any sense.



#35
Excessus

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Might also be that some auras only affect the dust-bunnies, like some auras in the admech codex only affect skitarii and so on...


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#36
Putrid Choir

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Also I wonder how magnus will pan out. A whole 40 pts cheaper than mortarion. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing.


Well seeing as how much better Mortarion got without going in points, I'm hoping magnus gets the same love!

#37
Xenith

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So a 90pt character probably won't do much sadly for that cost.

 

A box of upgrades probably only for your warlord and maybe able to give to another exalted as a stratagem.

 

That's all we get for our new book? Ugh such a missed opportunity again. 

 

Well, the Apothecary is a 75pt marine character (and formerly 90pt master apoc) that changed the whole dynamic of the game. 

 

These upgrades will likely be one per army, upgrade a sorcerer of your choice. I look forward to seeing what they do. Interesting way to make a 3 man box go further. Hopefully each options isnt cult locked. 


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Xenos XX\


#38
Waking Dreamer

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Perhaps most interesting of all, Thousand Sons upgrades:

 

Ardent Automata
Battle-Psyker
Dilettante
Loyal Thrall
Paradigm of Change
Protégé
Rehati
Rites of Coalescence
Witch-Warrior

 

 

 

wow Legion Command upgrades?!

 

A question to all the TS players, would you be able to speculate which Legion Command upgrade belongs to which Legion Cult sub-faction...or if there is some other possible correlation between the 9 upgrades and the 9 Cults?


Edited by Waking Dreamer, 31 May 2021 - 02:58 PM.

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#39
Marshal Loss

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A question to all the TS players, would you be able to speculate which Legion Command upgrade belongs to which Legion Cult sub-faction...or if there is some other possible correlation between the 9 upgrades and the 9 Cults?

There almost assuredly isn't any connection at all, the upgrade systems put into 9th edition books are not subfaction specific. Cults will be a separate layer, just like DG have Plague Companies & Deadly Pathogens.


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#40
Excessus

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Admech got a similar system as well, seemed quite nice.

 

...I wonder what Codex: CSM will get if they follow this pattern... :)


"Deception IS the point. Any fool can calculate strength. That one has been doing it from the moment he saw us. Now, he has to calculate what he can't see. And fear what he doesn't know."

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#41
Prot

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What will be very interesting to me is the new Psychic tree. 

 

I disagree with some of what GW has been doing to psychics for other factions. I truly hate removal of core functions like "Obsec". And I can see that GW has been toiling away in that area for easy 'power gains'. Nothing makes something better, and quicker than having a power that just lets you pretty much point at something and say, "That unit loses X".  X could be leadership, or could be ObSec, or could be movement, or could be the ability to fight in chronological order, etc, etc.

 

I fear that the way power creep has gone in 9th (and I think it is WAY higher in 9th that it was in 8th) that there maybe a fist full of powers that are just meddling in those 'core' areas just to give Thousand Sons a valid playground in 9th.

 

I say "I don't like it" for two reasons: 1 I mentioned this, but I hate all this "You fight last, no you flight  last, no you can't fight until I'm done". Removal of Obsec is something I really hate. It's why we (largely) take troops. Leave it alone. Even movement can be just so penal to zap from certain armies.

 

The second reason is because these abilities are so game changing, they will have hard counters. Look to the plethora of new 9th ed abilities to outright cancel a psychic power to see what I mean. Dark Angels for example... those watchers in multiple squads are just too good. 

 

Of course I digress, this is just pure speculation on my part. I just have not been a fan of the psychic phase in this edition. I don't like how it works, I don't like the order of it, the picking of power during the "mustering phase".  It really makes it far less dynamic. Perhaps that would be one of the best things you could flat out do for Thousand Sons; let them pick powers just before battle round 1 begins. (I know that's a pipe dream).

 

Anyway, I struggled with Thousand Sons just because dice games can be so maddening. It was part of the attraction to Thousand Sons... the warp is fickle, right? Some games you can't miss, the next game you could blow your whole tournament on the fact you just couldn't get a power off for 2 turns or something (I think this has happened to me more than I care to admit.)

 

But for me, this whole book boils down to the Psychic phase/ Psychic tree more than anything else.


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#42
BoomWolf

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Picking powers before turn 1 starts is bad for one reason

Time. it consumes a hell lot of time.

 

 

The true change I want to see, but the odds are extremely low, is that we will get to cast ANY spell like smite-you can keep trying/casting, but the warp charge goes up the more you try.

The ability to double, triple, etc up on spells (however unlikely) allows you to actually have a strategy with them, either to make darn sure a critical spell goes off, or have certain buffs over multiple units (or bombard with spells, that's also nice)


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#43
Archaeinox

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In any case, the attention to detail is clear. We can now take Inferno Combibolters on Rhinos, helbrutes, land raider, etc. That is certainlyattention to detail, and I think it will manifest in positive ways with other things. The ability to pay for AP -2 combibolters is very nice considering it was 1 CP each time you wanted that upgrade......That is a boost.


Edited by Archaeinox, 01 June 2021 - 03:03 AM.

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#44
BoomWolf

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Is the attention to detail clear?
Yea, the combi weapons got infero profiles

But the heavy bolters did not

Neither did various vehicle flamer profiles

 

It was a swing and a miss.

 

Sure, its much better than the old way, because the old way was so bad nobody in his sane mind even considered it-but its still far from being done right.


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#45
Naryn

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Yea, the combi weapons got infero profiles

But the heavy bolters did not

Neither did various vehicle flamer profiles

Man, I didn't even know how badly I wanted this until I read your post.



#46
Ahzek451

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Is the attention to detail clear?
Yea, the combi weapons got infero profiles
But the heavy bolters did not
Neither did various vehicle flamer profiles

It was a swing and a miss.

Sure, its much better than the old way, because the old way was so bad nobody in his sane mind even considered it-but its still far from being done right.

Certainly a step in the right direction, but knowing myself, this is going to irritate the holy crap out of me after a month. All bolt type weapons should have the same affect, period. All flamers should be akin to warpflamers. Going to hold out judgement until we get the book, but dammit guys....is it laziness, apathy, I'm curious what the thought process is. From a certain view this is a peanuts issue, but clearly not to fans. I'm sure it will be a fine codex, but sometimes...dontchya just want to stroll into the GW offices with a rolled up newspaper?

Why are combi plas still not an option(death guard has it), but plasma pistols are...with no bit for it in the box. What logic (if any) is behind this weird plasma quirk unique to us?

Edited by Ahzek451, 02 June 2021 - 03:02 AM.

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#47
Archaeinox

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I'm hoping the psychic powers can fill the weapons gaps and appease us.


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#48
Prot

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Picking powers before turn 1 starts is bad for one reason

Time. it consumes a hell lot of time.

 

 

 

 

While I agree, it's not for the feint of heart, it adds true value, and a well seasoned Thousand Sons Player becomes a pro at this. Trust me, I went from 'flash cards' and yes, even magic marker mock ups of my power selections for tournaments! 

 

Some people love that level of depth. Nowadays with so many tournaments using timers, it's up to you how you use your time. Ever see an Ork Green Tide army blow 30 minutes just moving in T1? There's a ton of time sinks in this game.

 

I think the lack of flexibility in 'choice' of powers absolutely handicaps the heck out of the Psychic tree. There's no point in the psychic trees as they stand. Even armies with one psyker pick the same boring powers over and over. The lack of flexibility pigeon holes you into thinking, "Which of these powers can I most likely use every game?" and then you pitch the rest out the window. 

 

Maybe there is an inbetween? Perhaps not, but I certainly would welcome flexibility. The current restriction just has everyone taking the same thing.

 

And again I fear we will have some REAL potent abilities that we all default to, and perhaps 1-2 that are army composition based.

 

++++++++++++++

 

As a side note I find it funny in my original post I make mention of the crazy situation of the mechanism that has become "who fights first?" and they just updated that gong show in an FAQ. I'm going to now read that for a second time to see if it makes more sense to me.... I still feel like we end up with one of those Fight fastest powers in the psychic phase. ;)


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#49
Ahzek451

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Wouldnt the "in-between" just be a stratagem 1cp, that let's you swap powers during the game?

#50
BoomWolf

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Wouldnt the "in-between" just be a stratagem 1cp, that let's you swap powers during the game?

 

Maybe we can call it Chaos Familiar or something.


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