Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Ideas for list Post FAQ Nerf


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1
farfromsam

farfromsam

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 514 posts
  • Location:TEXAS

Since the recent FAQ points nerf my two main DA lists have gone up 150 points and 160 points.  These list can't survive losing 150 points (7%) and still being effective so I'm starting to look into new builds.  My style up to this point revolved around a triwing effort with an emphasis on Ravenwing for fast obsec and meltas that can get into position.  So I have a few questions

 

-What builds have you found to be effective against Admech, and Dark Eldar (both of which went unmolested from the FAQ)  

 

-Does DeathWing have the fortitude and points efficiency to weather 4 turns mid field.

 

-Has anyone tried allying DW and IG to flood the table and win via board control and staying power.  Is it points viable


Edited by farfromsam, 09 June 2021 - 11:17 PM.

  • XeonDragon likes this

#2
dice4thedicegod

dice4thedicegod

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 956 posts
My crazy offball suggestion… if playing deathwing heavy list… maybe better to ally in knights than guard… that way your opponent has no good targets for their chaff clearance guns… and too many hard targets for their AT weapons. (I.e. leverage a skew list)
  • Interrogator Stobz, farfromsam, Helias Tancred and 1 other like this

#3
Malakithe

Malakithe

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 459 posts

What points changes were there? I havent seen them



#4
oldmanlee

oldmanlee

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 396 posts

What points changes were there? I havent seen them

The latest chapter approved that came out last weekend
Talonmaster went up 15pts
Attack bikes went up 5pts each
Chief apothecary upgrade went up 20pts
And there was a change to death on the wind

Deathwing heavy list is not great against admech I played the new admech book last Thursday I lost 15 terminators in one turn to mortal wounds and combat. And deathwing are still way too slow against dark eldar
I personally think greenwing with a splash of deathwing or ravenwing might be the way to go but I'm not sure as I don't play enough and I'm not a fan of 9th edition at all

#5
G8Keeper

G8Keeper

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,317 posts
  • Location:Birmingham, UK
  • Faction: Angels Repentant
What was the change to death on the wind? I've missed that one.
gallery_3547_15792_6078.pnggallery_3547_15435_7258.pnggallery_3547_15792_4794.png

 


#6
Angel of Solitude

Angel of Solitude

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 589 posts
  • Location:Widnes, UK
  • Faction: Dark Angels, Thousand Sons

What was the change to death on the wind? I've missed that one.

The clarification was that “minimum 12” move” now means you have to be 12” in a straight line displaced from your original location, not just going in a 12” circle and staying in the same place.

In response to the original question, if you ally in something else then don’t you lose your detachment abilities? So no combat doctrines, no ObSec Termies or bikes. Probably not a worth-while trade off.

Edited by Angel of Solitude, 10 June 2021 - 07:11 AM.

  • G8Keeper and farfromsam like this

gallery_48988_15465_43209.pnggallery_48988_15493_11529.pnggallery_48988_15200_20209.pnggallery_48988_16308_20607.png


#7
march10k

march10k

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 5,260 posts
  • Faction: 5th Company, First Legion

 

I personally think greenwing with a splash of deathwing or ravenwing might be the way to go but I'm not sure as I don't play enough and I'm not a fan of 9th edition at all

 

Multi-wing has always been the way.  Pure ravenwing comes in a distant second, and pure deathwing is probably worse than pure greenwing.  But all three is best. 

 

My list went up only 45 points because I wasn't spamming talonmasters and attack bikes.  The Chief Librarian is still a no-brainer in spite of the points increase.  If anything, he's costed correctly for chapters with extra sexy bikes and badly overcosted for Ultramarines now.


Edited by march10k, 12 June 2021 - 03:20 AM.

Path_to_Redemption_08BP_zps61931afa.jpgImg_CH00_08Awards_02_LPC_2012C.gifgallery_29004_6198_9307.pngImg_CH00_08Awards_02_LPC_2012D.gifgallery_30308_9518_3663.png

 


#8
farfromsam

farfromsam

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 514 posts
  • Location:TEXAS

 

What points changes were there? I havent seen them

The latest chapter approved that came out last weekend
Talonmaster went up 15pts
Attack bikes went up 5pts each
Chief apothecary upgrade went up 20pts
And there was a change to death on the wind

Deathwing heavy list is not great against admech I played the new admech book last Thursday I lost 15 terminators in one turn to mortal wounds and combat. And deathwing are still way too slow against dark eldar
I personally think greenwing with a splash of deathwing or ravenwing might be the way to go but I'm not sure as I don't play enough and I'm not a fan of 9th edition at all

 

 

Plasma Inceptors as well

 

My crazy offball suggestion… if playing deathwing heavy list… maybe better to ally in knights than guard… that way your opponent has no good targets for their chaff clearance guns… and too many hard targets for their AT weapons. (I.e. leverage a skew list)

 

I really like that idea, but, it doubles down on the problem of not filling out the table with units.  My play is to push to the field midpoint and survive.  with that in mind, what's the best knight for sitting back and pumping out shots? what's the best anything for that?



#9
dice4thedicegod

dice4thedicegod

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 956 posts

 

 

What points changes were there? I havent seen them

The latest chapter approved that came out last weekend
Talonmaster went up 15pts
Attack bikes went up 5pts each
Chief apothecary upgrade went up 20pts
And there was a change to death on the wind

Deathwing heavy list is not great against admech I played the new admech book last Thursday I lost 15 terminators in one turn to mortal wounds and combat. And deathwing are still way too slow against dark eldar
I personally think greenwing with a splash of deathwing or ravenwing might be the way to go but I'm not sure as I don't play enough and I'm not a fan of 9th edition at all

 

 

Plasma Inceptors as well

 

My crazy offball suggestion… if playing deathwing heavy list… maybe better to ally in knights than guard… that way your opponent has no good targets for their chaff clearance guns… and too many hard targets for their AT weapons. (I.e. leverage a skew list)

 

I really like that idea, but, it doubles down on the problem of not filling out the table with units.  My play is to push to the field midpoint and survive.  with that in mind, what's the best knight for sitting back and pumping out shots? what's the best anything for that?

 

I would think that a mechanicus castellan with cold eradication warlord trait and cawls wrath would be the thing to get.  

if I were doing it, I’d probably get the castellan along with Maybe with a couple of cheap armiger warglaives , run a custom house (glorified history and defiant fury) .  That detachment would cost approximately 900 points and zero cp.  but the castellan gives monumental shooting and the warglaives can shoot/fight reasonably for their points.



#10
Grand Master Raziel

Grand Master Raziel

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 979 posts
  • Location:Dayville, CT, USA
  • Faction: Night Angels

Dude, what kind of crazy list were you running? My current list is a Ravenwing Outrider with 2 Talonmasters, 6 MMABs and the Ravenwing Chief Apothecary and it only went up 80. I'm dropping 2 Bikes and a Black Knight to pay for it.


BHoA_2014_Banner_Artificer.jpg

Profile of the Night Angels

Check out my 40K blog: Crafting Cave Games


#11
ValourousHeart

ValourousHeart

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,123 posts
  • Location:DFW, Texas
  • Faction: Order of the Gossamer Shroud

 

What was the change to death on the wind? I've missed that one.

The clarification was that “minimum 12” move” now means you have to be 12” in a straight line displaced from your original location, not just going in a 12” circle and staying in the same place.

 

Which document is that in?

 

I get that it is trying to stop have all your bikes parked in 1 place and have one bike circle the unit to count as moving.  But does that mean if there is a lot of terrain on the board and you have to zigzag to get through it, only the straight line distance will count for certain rules?


  • Galthan Ironsturm likes this

#12
Angel of Solitude

Angel of Solitude

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 589 posts
  • Location:Widnes, UK
  • Faction: Dark Angels, Thousand Sons
It’s in the Core Rulebook FAQ:

“Page 366 – Rules Term Glossary
Add the following:
Moved x" or more: Some rules require a unit to move x" or more, or are triggered when a unit moves x" or more, where x is a specific value listed in the rule itself. In both such cases, it is the displacement between the start and end of the move that is being referred to, and not the total distance moved. For example, in the former case, such a rule requires all parts of every model in the unit to end their move at least x" away from where they started. In the latter case, such a rule is triggered when all parts of every model in the unit have ended a move at least x" away from where they started.”

Given the way it’s worded, having to zig-zag through terrain would prevent you from satisfying the requirement.

Rules as intended though, if you’ve made a genuine attempt to move 12” and you’re not just jiggling about or going in a circle, then I’d say you’d satisfied the requirement.
  • ValourousHeart likes this

gallery_48988_15465_43209.pnggallery_48988_15493_11529.pnggallery_48988_15200_20209.pnggallery_48988_16308_20607.png


#13
march10k

march10k

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 5,260 posts
  • Faction: 5th Company, First Legion

It’s in the Core Rulebook FAQ:

“Page 366 – Rules Term Glossary
Add the following:
Moved x" or more: Some rules require a unit to move x" or more, or are triggered when a unit moves x" or more, where x is a specific value listed in the rule itself. In both such cases, it is the displacement between the start and end of the move that is being referred to, and not the total distance moved. For example, in the former case, such a rule requires all parts of every model in the unit to end their move at least x" away from where they started. In the latter case, such a rule is triggered when all parts of every model in the unit have ended a move at least x" away from where they started.”

Given the way it’s worded, having to zig-zag through terrain would prevent you from satisfying the requirement.

Rules as intended though, if you’ve made a genuine attempt to move 12” and you’re not just jiggling about or going in a circle, then I’d say you’d satisfied the requirement.

 

You're 100% correct in spirit.  In practice, there are quite a lot of players who would want to rule it the way that you do if it were their bikes involved, but "rules as written" if it were their opponent's bikes.  40k is a wonderful game ruined by the players.  Or, as my sainted grandmother was fond of saying "people are just no damned good!"


  • Angel of Solitude likes this

Path_to_Redemption_08BP_zps61931afa.jpgImg_CH00_08Awards_02_LPC_2012C.gifgallery_29004_6198_9307.pngImg_CH00_08Awards_02_LPC_2012D.gifgallery_30308_9518_3663.png

 


#14
davextreme

davextreme

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 68 posts

> Plasma Inceptors as well
 

 

yes these are 40/each now with Bolters or 60/each with Plasma. They still do better damage dmg/point but it makes the Bolter versions more appealing.

 

> 40k is a wonderful game ruined by the players.

 

As you say, the rule change/clarification was needed because certain types of players abused it. Secondaries are about posing a challenge for you to solve for a reward. The question would be whether it’s too difficult now for the points it gives you. I’ve been playing Crusade games so I haven’t been able to test it. Maybe DotW could have been reduced to 10 inches or moved up to 3 points for completion. Or maybe it’s just fine in actual play. It’s at least clear now, though maybe getting a larger unit of bikes where every bike has moved the requisite distance will be tricky.



#15
farfromsam

farfromsam

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 514 posts
  • Location:TEXAS

I think with this latest FAQ, and lack of balance.  DA are out of the mix aside from fluff, and fun games that is.


Edited by farfromsam, Yesterday, 11:22 PM.


#16
Vulshra

Vulshra

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 58 posts
  • Faction: Black Halos
I disagree. They took a hit but are no means unviable. Obsec terminators and bikes, along with a not bad chapter tactic, and a good psychic domain means I think they should stay if not at the top of the meta at least in contention in the hands of a good commander

#17
farfromsam

farfromsam

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 514 posts
  • Location:TEXAS

They didn't win a GT before Dark Eldar came out.  Now, with a nerf... c'mon.  We're better than we were in most editions, but we aren't top.  On stats we are 13th for win percentage, just under Adeptus Custodes.  White scars, and even DeathWatch have a better showing than us... pre nerf.


Edited by farfromsam, Today, 01:41 AM.


#18
oldmanlee

oldmanlee

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 396 posts

They didn't win a GT before Dark Eldar came out.  Now, with a nerf... c'mon.  We're better than we were in most editions, but we aren't top.  On stats we are 13th for win percentage, just under Adeptus Custodes.  White scars, and even DeathWatch have a better showing than us... pre nerf.


Don't take this the wrong way but you seem really down on dark Angels why don't you play dark eldar or admech if you don't think dark Angels are very good now?

I'm hopeful that with the points changes you will start to see some interesting list other than the utterly boring 9 attack bikes talonmaster spam




2 user(s) are reading this topic

1 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users


    Galthan Ironsturm