IL XVI - The Drowned

[Hesh Kadesh]

No problem with row change from my part. Edited June 11, 2018 by Hesh Kadesh

[simison]

No problem with row change from my part.

 

Sounds good, and the rest?

[simison]

To clarify the unit overload, right now the Drowned have 4 unique units: the Forlorn, the Navigator-marine, the Seekers, and the Monarchs. As we've established elsewhere, there is a high likelihood for additional slots to be handed out, which means that no unit has to be discarded at this time. The Monarchs and Seekers should obviously stay as the Great Crusade units. Which leaves the Forlorn and the Navigator-Marine. 

 

I'd recommend the Navigator-Marines be saved. Both because they represent dangerous territory, and Hesh wants them to sync with the Forlorn. 

 

The Forlorn could potentially have two character sheets. One with just the DE-influence, and the latter daemonic incarnation. It would be a chance to capture some form of Chaos evolution happening in the Traitor legions. But, I'm not quite sure what the timeline of Morro's own corruption is. 

[helterskelter]

Sounds alright here

[simison]

As an addendum to the Forlorn timeline, several members have protested that the Forlorn being Gal Varbok well before the Eagle Warriors debut them, who outright dedicate themselves to Chaos before the rest, seriously undermines one of the few notable traits of the Eagle Warriors. As explained earlier, this is also well before Icarion is willing to suffer such alliances and enables us a slower build-up to daemonic activity, unlike canon's sprint once the Heresy starts. 

 

Given all of this, Grifft has prepared an alternate rule sheet for the early Forlorn that more closely aligns with the Grotesques. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

The Drowned's timeline isn't exactly set in stone either, so happy to have the Forlorn make a showing at a later time - same for Morro so that everything can be shaped to fit :) re Unit Overload, I have no problem with taking only the Charonic Seekers and the Monarchs forward at the moment. No need for an alternative for them, although thanks for the effort. Just have them take place fully formed.

 

Regarding Morro, the general concept was that he would purposefully do what he could to stay absent from his brothers, and much of the Imperium, by and large following the appointment of the Warmaster; Assuming this is still the timeline we're working to;

 

Timeline (Beta)

798.M30. The Space Marine legions are created and the Great Crusade begins. 
799.M30. Icarion, primarch of the Lightning Bearers, is found. 
899.M30. The last primarch is found and re united with his legion. 
950.M30. Leman Russ and Magnus the Red go missing. All records of their legions existence is expunged. 
000.M31. The Qarith triumph. The Emperor returns to Terra, leaving his son Alexandros as Warmaster. 
044.M31. The Icarion Insurrection begins.
074.M31. The Icarion Insurrection ends, leaving the Imperium a flaming ruin.

 

Russ+Magnus went missing 50 years prior to the Warmaster's appointment, which was when Morro was supposed to have had his hand cut off - which cannot logically have happened, as that was due to meant to be Russ who had done that to him. Given that in this thread, the list of Morro being found is 10th; which is roughly a period of 1 every 5 years, suggests that he was found around 50 years into the Great Crusade (unless there's a more concrete timeframe anyone has in mind).

 

However, that timeline is slightly off-key I think, as it starts a bit late - the Space Marine legions were founded at least in part before 745.M30, where they aided in the destruction of the Last Church, and then later the Sa'afrik Liberation, followed by the Luna Pacification in 790; however the GC indisputably started in 798, so little changes there, but the suggestion is that Morro is found around 850.M50 (again, no set date, if we want to skew it one way or the other).

 

This would give the following concrete events;

- 798,M30; The XVIth Legion is granted an operational status having achieved the size necessity to be considered a legion of full size and complement. Their first operation is on the Azurite stations on Neptune and secured the moon of Europa.

- 798.M30; Lord Commander Hennasohn orders the legion to be split up into small much smaller detachments, each one to be assigned to a major Legionary Expeditionary Fleet so as to impart their knowledge and learn from their hosts. This was known as the [Kingmaker (or another name)] Decree.

- ?850's.M30; Sorrowsworn Morro, Primarch of the XVIth Legion was discovered. Lord Commander Hennasohn is given another command as Morro begins to mold the legion in a manner more akin to his liking.

- 950.M30; Magnus and Russ disappear.

- 990's.M30; Rediscovery of the Mechanicum Abyssii?

- 000.M31; The Qarith Triumph, and approval of Alexandros as Warmaster

- 010.M31; The Vizenko Prosecution; Morro elects to send his two Equerries Boraeo, and the former Lord Commander Hennasohn who align themselves with the defense.

- 044.M31; The Icarion Insurrection begins with the Day of Revelation. Morro's target, his erstwhile closest ally, Pionus Santor, manages to escape, but not before much of his legion is devastated by the swollen numbers of the XVIth Legion and their auxiliary forces.

- 06~.M31: Feneos is destroyed in an act of petulant rage by [X (any legion/force)] by being [physically driven into the caustic atmosphere of the gas giant. (again, any way)]

- 074.M31; The Icarion Insurrection ends; Morro casts himself into the warp after all but destroying the mortal form of Pionus Santor, realising at the end the extent of the actions.

 

- Post Insurrection; Hennasohn tries to hunt down Morro Moby Dick style while what remains of the legion fractures.

 

So, Morro's history with the Eldar raiders and Rakarth on Styx is easy enough to reconcile; it's the time afterwards. Realistically, Rakarth can be recaptured before 010.M31, but it has to be something that would prevent him from simply taking his own life and respawning back in Commoragh, so there needs to be a threat to his immortal soul; which is where I think Be'lakor can come it. Given that Molech is not being done in the Heresy way, and occurs in 867.M41, perhaps that could be a gateway through which Be'lakor is released. That would mean it could stay on the vessel unknown while it builds up its strength, but in the next 50 years, makes himself known to Morro, and can be used as that threat which would prevent Rakarth from running when he is captured.

 

Morro could lose his arm in a less ridiculous means than simply cheating in a game, and actually lose it in combat against Morterra or as part of the Qarith triumph, depending on the timeline, at which point, Rakarth becomes one of the few who can fix it, by implanting the Daemonweb Lattice into Morro, because of some Qarith magic space voodoo stuff/necrotising agency within the weapon used (Hrud tech?). This would give him and his legion a reason to want to support the Vizenko side more than simply "just because".

 

Does that improve things any?

[simison]

So, the timeline has been revised since that point, and I do apologize for that. Here is the set timeline as it stands, while the years the Primarchs are discovered can be found on the first post of the General Discussion thread (either one). 

 

805.M30 - Icarion discovered.

894.M30 - Morro discovered. 

090.M30 - Abyssii discovered.

974.M30 - The Jade General, the last Primarch, discovered.

000.M31. The Qarith triumph. The Emperor returns to Terra, leaving his son Alexandros as Warmaster. 
031.M31. The Icarion Insurrection begins.
054.M31. The Icarion Insurrection ends, leaving the Imperium a flaming ruin.

 

The Prosecution and the date for the death of Magnus and Leman are not as precise, but the former is only a few years after the Qarith Triump while the latter is in the 970s.

 

Now, the big restriction when it comes to Rakarth and Morro's new hand/arm is that it needs to avoid discovery by anyone. As such, I still had Morro using his augmetic one in the Great Games (the three-day festival to celebrate the Emperor's retirement after the Qarith Triumph). That's in 000.M31 and gives Morro two years at least to find Rakarth. That's cutting it a little close to me, but I do like the idea that Morro comes down hard on the defensive side of the Prosecution because he is desperate to have a real arm again.

 

Also, to prevent Rakarth from committing suicide, can't Morro just throw him into a stasis field between sessions?

 

I'm not understanding the Be'lakor line. What releases him? How is he released? 

 

Ehhhh, Morro could lose his arm in a different way, but I'm hesitant. It's been well-established for a long time now. Also, after a conversation, no special weapon is needed to cut Morro's arm off. The only one who could get him a regrowned limb is the Emperor, who Morro is unwilling to ask.

 

Finally, how come the Drowned don't have an aquatic unit? I mentioned it to Helter, and he came up with something the other day. 

[simison]

Malacost Hazard Squad

 

 

Comparison Base: Tactical Squad (125 points)

 

Attributes

 

• -1 I (Unit): (-20) points
  

 

Total: (-20) points

 

Wargear

 

• Artificer Armour: 50 points
  
• Kraken Rounds: 25 points
  

 

Total: 75 points

 

Special Rules

• Hardened Armour: 10 points
  

 

Total: 10 points

 

Total cost: 65 points

 

Recommend overall cost: [200 points

 

Notes: 

 

• I feel like I'm forgetting a debate on how much Hardened should cost, and the Krak rounds are throwing me off, I bet.
  

[Grifftofer]

Well Hardened Armour is available to the Heavy Support Squad for 20 points, so I'd go with that. Having said that I'm not sure Kraken rounds are worth 25 points. When we looked at the Wraiths previously we concluded that the special ammo was roughly equivalent to Sniper. So that would mean the individual ammo types should be worth less than that. I think that 15-20 points would be appropriate (probably 20 as they are vaguely similar to banestrike).

[bluntblade]

Now, at the time of the Insurrection's beginning, what is the exact nature and combat purpose of the Forlorn?

 

Also, what purpose would the Charonic Seekers best serve on Untara?

Edited June 26, 2018 by bluntblade

[helterskelter]

 

Also, what purpose would the Charonic Seekers best serve on Untara?

In boarding actions bridge and silencing gunnery crews, on surface doing what seekers do, hunting important targets, maybe responsible for a captain kill?

[simison]

Now, at the time of the Insurrection's beginning, what is the exact nature and combat purpose of the Forlorn?

 

 

After the last round of discussion, the Forlorn are space marines giving a diet of DE combat drugs and twisted under Rakarth's machinations. Think of them as Marine-Grotesques, which makes them a heavy-hitting yet intellectually-limited squad. They're essentially melee specialists with tanking capabilities. 

[bluntblade]

How much are they meant to number at Untara?

[simison]

I don’t know.

[bluntblade]

We ought to think about that. Also their appearance. I don't see any mention of what armour they wear or the weapons they carry.

Edited June 26, 2018 by bluntblade

[Grifftofer]

I know its out of date, but this might help if you haven't seen/read it recently: http://botl.wikia.com/wiki/Day_of_Revelation#The_Battle_of_Untara_Prime

[bluntblade]

Sadly, I don't see any Forlorn references in there.

 

Shall we do some brainstorming on their look, then? I'm thinking they'd be misshapen, and armoured with comparatively crude armour.

[Grifftofer]

Ah, sorry. Didn't realise you were specifically looking for info on the Forlorn. My bad

[bluntblade]

Yeah, sorry about that.

[simison]

Sadly, I don't see any Forlorn references in there.

 

Shall we do some brainstorming on their look, then? I'm thinking they'd be misshapen, and armoured with comparatively crude armour.

 

Sounds good since that's what the Grotesques look like. Maybe a different kind of helmet.

 

All three of the Drowned's current units (Monarchs-Seekers-Malacost) have passed inspection. We are now moving into the final phase: special characters. As a word of warning, Morro needs to be revamped given his initial ruleset violated several different rules of Primarch creation. Helter and Grifft are in the middle of said process. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

I care nothing for how Morro has been currently changed. I don't mind for toning down what has been written, but it shares no resemblance to anything he was invisaged as.

[simison]

Such as? Be as specific as possible. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

Be as specific as possible. You mean apart from the only similarity being that of the name? Save my time and everybody elses.

[simison]

Be as specific as possible. You mean apart from the only similarity being that of the name? Save my time and everybody elses.

 

So, I was not keeping an eye on that process since I was busy with looking over Boraeo and now Hennasohn. I can understand your frustrations, but nothing can happen if you don't say anything else besides 'this sucks'. 

 

Because, as you acknowledged, Morro in the previous incarnation was in need of revision. (For one easy example, Morro is going to have Independent Character as a Primarch.) 

 

With that understanding, the best way to make your case going forward is to explain your thoughts and opinions behind your choices and to hear other's thoughts and opinions in turn. Regardless of what Morro looks like at the end of this process, all I want is respectful dialogue on the way there.

[simison]

[boraeo has passed inspection after some debate about his price and a reduction of his BS by 1.]

 

Cataract Hennasohn

 

Comparison Base: Praetor (100 points)

 

Attributes

 

• -1 WS: (-5) points
  
• -2 A: (-10) points
  

 

Total: (-15) points

 

Wargear

 

• The Detrius 35 points 
  
• Master-Crafted Boltgun: 7 points
  
• Netheramber Torc: 20 points
  

 

Total: 62 points

 

Special Rules

• Special Issue Ammunition: 20 points
  
• Poltergheist: 70 points
  

 

Total: 90 points

 

Total cost: 137 points

 

Recommend overall cost: 237 points

 

Notes: 

 

• The reroll for invul saves is the big offender with Poltergheist as the close second. The former is an ability that was denied to a Primarch, while the second grants Relentless and a combination-frankenstein of Iron Arm and Warp Speed. That power comes with a weak limitation and has no activation price. 
  
• Why does he have Special Issue ammo?