redshadow Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) Crimson exarch posted a list by the ITC blood angels top ranked player, it was a brigade, I think it went something like this Captain (Artisan of War) w/jump Pack/Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield Mephiston Sanguinary Priest w/Jump Pack Sanguinary Priest (Angel's wings) w/jump Pack X6 5 man scout squads w/blades 5 sanguinary guard W/encarmine blades/angelus bolguns Sanguinary ancient (Standard of sacrifice) W/encarmine blade/angelus bolguns 5 sternguard w/power weapon 7 assault marines W/power sword 7 assault marines W/power sword 7 assault marines W/ power sword 5 Dev marines W/Lascannons/3 heavy bolters 5 Dev marines W/Lascannons/3 heavy bolters 5 Dev marines W/4 heavy bolters Drop pod W/storm bolter When I add this up there's still points to play with, if I remember correctly he had some hand flamers scattered throughout aswell, seems fun, jumping one of the assault marines squads around to keep collecting objective, could work but it's blood angels on hard mode. Edited December 13, 2017 by redshadow Are Verlo 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Another strong Fast Attack choice would be Inceptors. Not that cheap but instead of comparing them with Assault Marines one should compare them with Devastators. They are essentially way more mobile, slightly more durable (T5) Devastators with half range but deep strike instead for the same cost for the amount of dakka, wounds and attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 I'm with ya, sfpanzer, I'm just trying to work with the stuff I already have (and I don't have any primaris guys yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Ghost IX Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 ASM are decent still. Our arming options for 2 specials make them good. I would run them meched up myself like back in the day tho. I think Indefragable and others thereafter have valid points for running them that way. I don't foresee a Brigade as being my way either - Sacrifices too much list variety for the CP gain for my liking. Dual Battalion is more doable. Battalion + Vanguard + Vanguard (or outrider or another formation...) for (3+1+1) = 5 + 3 = 8cp seems enuf to budget towards for me right now. With Veritas Vitae I think it's enough depending on how intend to spend the them. Time will tell. I am still leaning towards dual rhino/razor mech to advance and leverage the Red Thirst with a more moderate less CP hungry jump support section. Points for armour and Sternguard/Company Vets as my plan kinda shoots down the Dual Battalion/Brigade for me personally right now. It could suck wind as an idea, won't know till I get the list built and played a few times prolly. Looks like a number of ways to go forward perhaps which is great =) I hope my codex arrives in the mail soon or I might be running with dual codex... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_b Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Why not start a group of 10 AM on the board, loaded with whatever you like, maybe even flamers? Move them quickly to threaten blobs, objectives, or what have you. They'll be able to weather some casualties and still be effective. Plasma gun and axe/power sword on sgt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Ghost IX Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Why not start a group of 10 AM on the board, loaded with whatever you like, maybe even flamers? Move them quickly to threaten blobs, objectives, or what have you. They'll be able to weather some casualties and still be effective. Plasma gun and axe/power sword on sgt. That's not too shabby as 2x5 with 4 plasma and 2 Sgts and could be planned to perhaps save 30 points in jump packs too if your rocking plasma. I think I would look hard at other options, but ASM are not worthless at all. I would rather a DCDN with flame on for similar points over the flamer guys myself tho they have some merit jumping up in screen world 40k =) Again I think I would look hard at other Str 4 options like storm bolters and such tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebs_evo7 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 I'm going to try a melta and a plasma squad with jump packs. Melee weapons on the sgts and ill use WoF to drop them in my opponents backfield whilst other choppier stuff is doing it's thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 People take tacs for a plasma and combi plasma. ASM do it better. 5 assault marines, 2 plasma guns,rhino/razor. Tacs are Troops which are normally better for CP farming and have ObjSec. In the specific case of filling a Brigade though, I agree that the plasma build has mileage. I haven't picked up the Codex yet as I have to wait and see if Father Christmas thinks I have been a good boy this year. Can ASM sergeants take combi-plas or plasma pistols? For sure, you need objective holders, but ASM make for cheap plasma. My old Csm army features heavy use of 5 man 2 plasma units and it was effective. Unsure how good msu in 8th is though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 MSU has advantages, particularly for morale. The new roll off for first turn means that although it reduces your odds of getting T1, it is not longer automatic and may be worth considering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Wondering if Company Vets can do a similar role in a rhino for a higher concentration of special weapons? 3 squads of 3 dudes with meltas in a Rhino and room for a Tycho for rerolls and more Melta? Potential 60 damage box! Crimson Ghost IX, Arkhanist and Karhedron 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Ghost IX Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) Wondering if Company Vets can do a similar role in a rhino for a higher concentration of special weapons? 3 squads of 3 dudes with meltas in a Rhino and room for a Tycho for rerolls and more Melta? Potential 60 damage box! Now we're cooking with gas !!! er Melta =) Just storm bolters and CQC weapons backing up Sterguard w/Grav Cannon doesn't suck either. Salt and Pepper to taste there are many a ways to load a Rhino *nod. Think I will start a thread so we don't clutter the ASM discussion here further tho. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/342287-loading-a-transport-for-murdering-stuff-new-codex/ Edited December 13, 2017 by Crimson Ghost IX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 For Assault Marines I'd probably still go with Jump Packs. It's just cheaper than putting them into a Rhino and the FLY keyword offers a lot of utility. For the loadout....I think both Plasma as well as Melta are viable but keeping them cheap with just pistol+chainsword and use them as distraction, charging them into enemy shooty units so they have to fall back, is not a bad idea either. However I think to fill the Fast Attack slots in a Brigade detachment I'd rather go with Scout Bikes, HF Landspeeder or Inceptors instead and outside of a Brigade detachment I wouldn't consider taking them at all since as plenty times mentioned our Elite section can do their job better anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Scout bikers do look good with the ability to take both Shotgun and combat blade. That is some surprisingly effective shooting combined with 2 attacks to leverage Red Thirst. Maybe a Power sword or Axe on the sergeant too. Aothaine and Remtek 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) And don't forget their Twin boltgun and Bolt pistol as well. That's 6 S4 AP0 shots at 12" (4 S4 + 2 S5 at 6") plus 2 S4 AP0 attacks + potentially a S4 AP0 shot in melee per model. Their Stratagem is not bad either. ^^ Edited December 13, 2017 by sfPanzer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 And don't forget their Twin boltgun and Bolt pistol as well. That's 6 S4 AP0 shots at 12" (4 S4 + 2 S5 at 6") plus 2 S4 AP0 attacks + potentially a S4 AP0 shot in melee per model. Their Stratagem is not bad either. ^^ What is the strat for the scout bikers? I had not even bothered to look at all of our strats yet. Yes, I'm embarrassed right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 And don't forget their Twin boltgun and Bolt pistol as well. That's 6 S4 AP0 shots at 12" (4 S4 + 2 S5 at 6") plus 2 S4 AP0 attacks + potentially a S4 AP0 shot in melee per model. Their Stratagem is not bad either. ^^ What is the strat for the scout bikers? I had not even bothered to look at all of our strats yet. Yes, I'm embarrassed right now. Yeah when they fall back you can roll a d6 and on a 2+ the enemy unit gets d3 mortal wounds. Situational and a bit expensive CP wise but not bad at all. :D Aothaine 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Scout bikers are still winners. Also regular plasma bikers putting out 6 shots each within 12". Remtek 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Very interesting stuff here. Sorry for derailing the thread. I'm actually a fan of our normal assault squads without jumpacks and in Rhinos. They are a great alternative for a Turn 2-3 assault unit. Drop in your elite forces for the alpha strike and let your three 10-man assault squads shimmy up the board in a Rhino to reinforce the elites. They weapon options are quite good. They might not be the best.. but they are good. Especially with our Chapter Trait and the auto-pass morale commander trait. I just thought of a way to think of lists using assault marines. It is like attacking in waves. First wave maybe the Death Company or Sanguniary Guard. They are then reinforced by Assault Squads which are then reinforced with Dreadnoughts/troop choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 I really can't justify a Rhino or even more expensive transport for Assault Marines. Jump Packs are just so cheap in comparison and offer quite a bit of utility. Especially in our Codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 I really can't justify a Rhino or even more expensive transport for Assault Marines. Jump Packs are just so cheap in comparison and offer quite a bit of utility. Especially in our Codex. The secret power of Rhinos is their ability to block LoS for cheap. Draw lascannons to knock down the moving wall protecting that DC bomb. Crimson Ghost IX, 9x19 Parabellum and Kallas 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzi Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 We don't really lack for good choices in the FA slot. MSU ASM with packs and plasma and melta are handy for yoyoing with On Wings of Fire to hit vehicles or drop behind hiding characters. Bikers of any flavor can provide the shooting to strip bubble wrap off of units that our jumpers want to assault. Landspeeders are my fave. Take in a squadron of three for 20" moves. Double flamers on the enemies front lines and then they can assault in to soak up overwatch and tie up other threats while our jumpers are moving into position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 I think ASM need to leverage their ONE strength: the ability to take dual special weps. Leave tacs naked because at least they get secure objective. -Bikes and scout bikes are both very good. My only issue with them is that I painted up 2 MSU squads for my Raven Guard....and I found out in doing so that I *really* hate those bike models. They are old, and the mold lines that split down the middle of the bikes match up very poorly and are very noticeable. Not a good mold at all. I don't know about the scout bikes though. -Land Speeders are too expensive for my taste, especially as it pertains to filling out a brigade, which is my primary interest in the FA slots. -Inceptors; SFPanzer has been preaching the gospel of inceptors for some time now, and I believe him, but I just can't throw in a unit of primaris stuff with my OG marines and be ok with it. They will be part of my Primaris Angels Sanguine detachment...if and when I get to them. -This leaves me in the position of having to find a way to make ASM work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Imo Landspeeders are only too expensive when you judge them as tax units. If you see them as units with actual worth on the table aside from filling slots they don't seem to be that expensive anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superwill Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) I would say Inceptors for sure are better than ASM if you need to fill a FA slot. I'm running my ASM as VVs (who still aren't the best but I love them). The main problem I'm having with my VV is they just don't have enough attacks - even when they hit, they just don't do enough. ASM do even less, and the discount isn't worth it IMO.But ultimately, depends on whether you want to make decisions based on competitive ability or personal style ;D For me, I find it easier to fill two Battalions and a couple of other small detachments. One or two less CP, but far easier to fill. Edited December 16, 2017 by superwill Crimson Ghost IX 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxus Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 Assault should be 15 points with the jump pack and the sergeant should be able to take combiweapons. Shiboinky 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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