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IA: Shenandoah Knights (WIP)

Black Templars Imperial Fists Successors WIP 25th founding

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#1
Sergeant Lowe

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Shenandoah Knights Chapter

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Origins
It is believed that the Shenandoah Knights chapter were formed as part of the 25th Founding.  As it is around this time that the first mentions of the chapter appear in Imperial records. 
 
 

Home World
The Shenandoah Knights claim the Shenandoah system in the Segmentum Pacificus as their home and maintain chapter keeps, which bear the title of Knight's Keep, on the inhabited planets in the system. They are Kyboro, Atlantica, Urangara and Lydale. Prior to the Shenandoah Knights claiming the system, it had a proud military history and provided many regiments, which were collectively referred to as the Shenandoah Guard for the Imperial Guard and while the numbers may have dropped, it is tradition that is still continued.
 
 
Gene-Seed

The gene-seed of the Shenandoah Knights is that of the Imperial Fists Legion and they share many of the same traits of that chapter. The chapter shares many personality with the Black Templars and claim their first generation's gene-seed came from the tithes of Black Templars to Terra

 
Organisation
The Shenandoah Knights maintain many of the traditions of their parent chapter, one of which is that the chapter is fleet based, even though they claim a system as their own, if not a single world. However their organisation strongly resembles that of the Black Templars, but rather than an ad hoc organisation like that of the Black Templars, the chapter is organised into 4 Priories, three of which are about equivalent in size to that of 3 companies from other chapters and each include their own Armoury, Reclusium and Apothecarium. The fourth Priory is called The Grand Priory, which is the Priory of the Grand Master and includes the chapter’s senior ranks. The chapter has a small number of Terminator suits that are used by the veterans of the Grand Priory.
 
 

Recruitment
The ways that the Knights recruit on each planet varies. However while each Priory recruits from all the planets in the system, each one tends to recruit from a specific planet more than the others and this in turn has had an affect on the character of each Priory.
 
 
Combat Doctrine
Due to being a fleet based chapter that seldom comes together in one place, each Priory has developed their own idiosyncrasies.  The third Priory  which favours assault over ranged fighting, has a higher number of assault troops. Whereas the second Priory which favours long range tactics,  has a higher number of fire support troops.

 
 
Beliefs
The people of the Shenandoah system are strong believers of the Imperial Creed and as such they venerate the Emperor as the God of Man and this has influenced the chapter's own beliefs. This has meant that the chapter have a strong and close relationship with the Ecclesiarchy and the Adepta Sororitas an it's not uncommon for the Knights to be seen fighting alongside Adepta Soroitas forces. But as you can imagine this belief has caused them to have a somewhat strained relationship with other Astartes chapters who do not share their beliefs. 
 
 
Battle Cry
To date there has been no recorded battle cry. It almost seems as if the chapter fights in silence and communicate via vox when needed. The only time during battle that anything is uttered is when they have to communicate with another force

 
Notable Member of the Shenandoah Knights
Grand Master Waddell - Waddell is the chapter's current Grand Master, He is the second to hold the office in the chapter's history.
 
Grand Master Bulloch - Bulloch was the Shenandoah Knight's first Grand Master and was killed in a warp accident upon the Battle Barge Sea King. The chapter's flagship.


Edited by Sergeant Lowe, 14 November 2020 - 08:58 AM.

http://www.bolterand...-wip/?p=5623232 - The Shenandoah Knights
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#2
Sergeant Lowe

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how do I move this to the Liber Astartes?


http://www.bolterand...-wip/?p=5623232 - The Shenandoah Knights
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#3
Brother Lunkhead

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I'll move it today.


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#4
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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Gene-Seed

The gene-seed of the Shenandoah Knights is that of the Imperial Fists and they share many of the same traits of that chapter. While the chapter claims ancestry of the Imperial Fists, it’s believed that the actual gene-seed used came from the Black Templars, as there are many similarities between the two and that these similarities are in homage to their progenitors.

 

 

The geneseed of the Black Templars IS Imperial Fist geneseed. They come from the same legion, they were part of the Imperial Fist Legion until Robute Guilliman introduced the Codex Astartes after the Horus Heresy, at which point they were broken off into their own chapter, with Sigismund (First Captain of the Imperial Fists) as their first Chapter Master, taking with him all of firey and zealous temperament. Alongside the Crimson Fists, Excoriators, Fists Exemplar and Iron Knights, all were part of the same original legion.

 

Not only this, but after the War of the Beast and the destruction of the Imperial Fists Chapter, it was re-founded with geneseed and warriors of all the subsequently founded Imperial Fists chapter. So really, at this stage they're all sharing the same geneseed as it's been handed down over the generations.

 

You can say they may share some of the same personality traits as the Black Templars and there are many ways to justify it, geneseed to my mind though, isn't one of them.

 

 

What I'm seeing here is the Black Templars under another name. While there's nothing wrong with that, what exactly sets these guys apart from their cousins?


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The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#5
Gamiel

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Beliefs

The people of the Shenandoah system are strong believers of the Imperial Creed and as such they venerate the Emperor as the God of Man and this has influenced the chapter's own beliefs. This has meant that they have a strong and close relationship with the Ecclesiarchy. But as you can imagine this belief has caused them to have a somewhat strained relationship with other Astartes chapters who do not share their beliefs.

Suggest reworking this, it's hard to know where "they" refer to the natives of Shenandoah and where it referees to members of the Knights.

 

Also how do their belief in the  Emperor take shape? What religious rituals and quirks do they have? The Ecclesiarchy is mostly based on a Gothic/Protestantic idea of the Catholic Church so you could take ideas from that but that does that not mean that all of it is Catholic-ish or that your CHapter religious rites need to be. Maybe their rites are based on Greek Orthodox Church, Shinto, Babylonian or Tibitan Buddhist rites? Or maybe they are Catholic in non-Gothic ways?

 

Or maybe their religious rituals are notably barbaric?

 

 

Home World

The Shenandoah Knights claim the Shenandoah system in the Segmentum Pacificus as their home and maintain chapter keeps, which bear the title of Knight's Keep, on the inhabited planets in the system. They are Kyboro, Atlantica, Urangara and Lydale. Prior to the Shenandoah Knights claiming the system, it had a proud military history and provided many regiments, which were collectively referred to as the Shenandoah Guard for the Imperial Guard and while the numbers may have dropped, it is tradition that is still continued.

Suggest giving a short description of each planets Imperial classification, main terrain and/or culture

 

 

 

 

Recruitment

The ways that the Knights recruit on each planet varies. However while each Priory recruits from all the planets in the system, each one tends to recruit from a specific planet more than the others and this in turn has had an affect on the character of each Priory.

Suggest giving some examples here by mentioning two or three Priories and which planets they prefer recruiting from, and what effects it has had on the character of each of those Priories.

 

 

 

Combat Doctrine

Due to being a fleet based chapter that seldom comes together in one place, each Priory has developed their own idiosyncrasies. This has also been influenced by the planet that each Priory primarily recruits from.

Suggest giving some examples.

 

 

 

I agree with brother Ydalir that your Chapter right now really lack anything that sets these guys apart from their cousins.

 

 

Since your Chapter has "knight" as part of their name, maybe take a look at this thread that's about suggestions to make a Chapter appear knightly http://www.bolterand...apter-knightly/



#6
Sergeant Lowe

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made some changes and added some examples as suggested.

 

@Gamiel: what I was trying to convey is that the chapter are adherents to the Imperial Creed rather than having their own flavour and that their chaplains are vitually Ministorum Priest


 

 


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http://www.bolterand...-wip/?p=5623232 - The Shenandoah Knights
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#7
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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made some changes and added some examples as suggested.

 

@Gamiel: what I was trying to convey is that the chapter are adherents to the Imperial Creed rather than having their own flavour and that their chaplains are vitually Ministorum Priest

 

 

So, there are a few chapters out there that take the Imperial Creed to heart, the Black Templars being the most well known and widely recognized. I think the Fire Angels, Star Phantoms, White Consuls, Hospitallers, Red Scorpions, Red Hunters and Fire Hawks, if memory serves, all view the Emperor as a God. I'm not sure if this list 100% on the money as my memory isn't the best on this subject.

 

Not all of these guys are as fleshed out as the Black Templars, but they all follow the Imperial Creed to a greater or lesser degree and also view the Emperor as a god, yet they are all significantly different from each other, and none ape the Black Templars. The Red Scorpions, Red Hunters and Black Templars are all really distinct chapters.

 

Hell, to take a closer look at the Black Templars, there's a whole host of contradicting information out there regarding their 'religious' status, depending on what source you take. Chaplain Grimaldus states in Fire and Blood that they actually view Him as the pinnacle of humanity, rather than a god. Yet Grimaldus also states that the Black Templars aren't actually one cohesive whole, and that each crusade fleet has it's own set of traditions and beliefs. In Fall of Cadia it even references how when Saint Celestine arrives the Black Templars aren't inspired in the same fashion as the Cadians as it specifically states they don't share the same beliefs.

 

 

While it might feel like I'm taking shots at you, I'm actually not. This is more pointing out that there's a significant amount of room for you to state just what your chapter believes, how and why, and how that is different to others that may share a similar temperament. Knowing all the facts allows you to make better decisions regarding who and what these guys are and how they got to be that way, which is the real meat of an IA.

 

What I'm trying to get at is that there's more to this than just 'they worship old bone-lord' or 'they do what the other religious fanatics do'. If they do, that's great, but where else do they differ? Combat Doctrine? Company structure? 

 

I like how your guys are actually more like an Ecclesiarchal - Astartes brigade as that's very interesting from a lot of different angles. Are they kept under watch by the Inquisition to prevent a breaking of the 'men under arms' edict placed upon the Ecclesiarchy? Do they get on with the Sisters of Battle? What's their relationship with the wider Ecclesiarchy? How do other chapters view them? How do they interact with the Imperial Military like the Guard or the Navy?

 

What I'm saying is that from a simple premise comes a lot of depth. That's kind of why I pick certain elements to harp on, as they have more impact than you'd think.


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The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#8
Gamiel

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To add to what Brother Ydalir suggested, I have a list of concepts/quirks for Chapter that believe in the God-Emperor (I'm a list maker), if you are interested can you read it below the spoiler. Even if many of the points probably don’t fit with your concept could some fit or be of inspiration.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 



#9
gripschi

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Arent 4 Habitable Worlds, even in the Imperium rare?

To be honest, i think it is too much, 2 would be plenty and i assume the Apdeptus Terra arent eager to give controll awasy from such a Asset.

Maybe a stewardship in cooperation with the Church? I could Image it as a good solution.

#10
jaxom

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Gene-Seed

The gene-seed of the Shenandoah Knights is that of the Imperial Fists and they share many of the same traits of that chapter. While the chapter claims ancestry of the Imperial Fists, it’s believed that the actual gene-seed used came from the Black Templars, as there are many similarities between the two and that these similarities are in homage to their progenitors.

 

 

The geneseed of the Black Templars IS Imperial Fist geneseed. They come from the same legion, they were part of the Imperial Fist Legion until Robute Guilliman introduced the Codex Astartes after the Horus Heresy, at which point they were broken off into their own chapter, with Sigismund (First Captain of the Imperial Fists) as their first Chapter Master, taking with him all of firey and zealous temperament. Alongside the Crimson Fists, Excoriators, Fists Exemplar and Iron Knights, all were part of the same original legion.

 

It could be read as the actual gene-seed used to create the chapter came from Black Templar gene-tihes to the Adeptus Terra rather than from Imperial Fist gene-tithes or Crusade-era stasis vaults. IIRC it's considered a particular honor for a successor chapter's gene-seed to be chosen for a Founding.


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#11
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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Gene-Seed

The gene-seed of the Shenandoah Knights is that of the Imperial Fists and they share many of the same traits of that chapter. While the chapter claims ancestry of the Imperial Fists, it’s believed that the actual gene-seed used came from the Black Templars, as there are many similarities between the two and that these similarities are in homage to their progenitors.

 

 

The geneseed of the Black Templars IS Imperial Fist geneseed. They come from the same legion, they were part of the Imperial Fist Legion until Robute Guilliman introduced the Codex Astartes after the Horus Heresy, at which point they were broken off into their own chapter, with Sigismund (First Captain of the Imperial Fists) as their first Chapter Master, taking with him all of firey and zealous temperament. Alongside the Crimson Fists, Excoriators, Fists Exemplar and Iron Knights, all were part of the same original legion.

 

It could be read as the actual gene-seed used to create the chapter came from Black Templar gene-tihes to the Adeptus Terra rather than from Imperial Fist gene-tithes or Crusade-era stasis vaults. IIRC it's considered a particular honor for a successor chapter's gene-seed to be chosen for a Founding.

 

 

Yes, it could be read that way, and it would be a fair way to put it if that's the case, but it doesn't quite translate. If you need to theorize as to what the paragraph actually means, it usually means it should be re-written to be clearer.

 

But yes, I think that's a great way to put it if you really want that BT geneseed to be a part of your chapter. My only gripe is why, since to me it seems it'd make very little difference.


The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#12
Sergeant Lowe

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The reason is that I play them using the Black Templar chapter trait, so I want to reflect that in the chapter's background


http://www.bolterand...-wip/?p=5623232 - The Shenandoah Knights
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#13
Gamiel

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The reason is that I play them using the Black Templar chapter trait, so I want to reflect that in the chapter's background

Do the Shenandoah Knights claim direct linage from the Imperial Fist?

 

If not could you have them as created from Black Templar stock. Or if they do, have a comment that others don't think that they are direct successors to IF but successors to them through the BT.



#14
Sergeant Lowe

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The reason is that I play them using the Black Templar chapter trait, so I want to reflect that in the chapter's background

Do the Shenandoah Knights claim direct linage from the Imperial Fist?

 

If not could you have them as created from Black Templar stock. Or if they do, have a comment that others don't think that they are direct successors to IF but successors to them through the BT.

 

My original idea was that they were successors of the Templars, but people kind of vetoed that idea saying that if they were BT successors then they were IF successors


http://www.bolterand...-wip/?p=5623232 - The Shenandoah Knights
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#15
jaxom

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Go with what makes you happy. It’s just a matter of phrasing in the original source of the gene seed.

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#16
Gamiel

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What  jaxom said



#17
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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Let's address some of this, as this is going to come down to a difference in approach and opinion.

 

 

 

 

My original idea was that they were successors of the Templars, but people kind of vetoed that idea saying that if they were BT successors then they were IF successors

 

Let's get a straight record here to begin with, no one vetoed anything. Those of us that have given constructive criticism, and/or suggestions to phrase things differently to achieve the same effect are not trying to 'veto' or railroad you into a certain way of doing things, we're providing alternatives and providing you with the information as to why we're making these suggestions and pointing a critical finger at some points here and there.

 

If you want to leave it how you have it, do it and say that you aren't going to change it and that it's what you want. That's no problem, but be clear and firm. People may still question your decision but most will simply move on. Be clear on what you want help with, and what you don't.

 

 

Go with what makes you happy. It’s just a matter of phrasing in the original source of the gene seed.

 

Yes absolutely, but again be clear on what you want from the people in the forum.

 

To get down to brass tacks, this comes down to a particular attitude I subscribe to, and a lot of others used to.

 

If you're writing up your custom IA for your own benefit, go for it. If you are happy with what you have, then leave it as it is.

But.

 

If you want other people's approval for your work, then you have to be willing take criticism and work on it.

 

If you put something up for public consumption, you have to be willing to bear the criticism as well as the praise. People in todays liber are far kinder than they used to be, but even at it's worst and most vicious, the majority of people were here to help and see you work hard and succeed, though in those days 'success' was having your IA be accepted into the Librarium, so there was a certain standard of work we were trying to achieve.

 

I cannot count the amount of times over the years in the Liber where people will post up their personal fan fiction and then get extremely offended that people in the community critiqued it. We all worked (and some still do) together and had a set of essentially guidelines that would help make your work both narratively better, as well as fitting into what 'canon' exists within the 40k setting as a whole.

 

 

What jaxom said is essentially right and I have no argument with that.

 

But at the end of it, what do you want from the Liber?


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The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#18
Sergeant Lowe

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@ Grey Hunter Ydalir: maybe veto was the wrong word to use. What I was getting at was that when I previously did this IA and had the chapter's gene-seed coming from the Black Templars, there were numerous comments that as the Templar were a chapter from the Imperial Fists then by extension any chapter that used a successor's gene-seed was an Imperial Fists successor.


Edited by Sergeant Lowe, 07 November 2020 - 02:32 PM.

http://www.bolterand...-wip/?p=5623232 - The Shenandoah Knights
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#19
jaxom

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Yeah, it can get a bit confusing depending on format or context, when gene-seed and primarch are used interchangeably. Here's one Liber template, for example:

 

 

 

Founding <<number or year/millennium of founding>> Progenitor Legion <<Name of Legion [<<name of direct predecessor>>]>> Known Descendants <<names of any known descendants>> Homeworld <<name of homeworld>> Allegiance <<Loyalist, Traitor, or Renegade>>

And it uses a format which clearly separates out the gene-seed's legion roots from the direct chapter predecessor which provided the gene-seed used to make the new chapter. The other template (resembles the one you used) leaves it up to the writer to figure out how to phrase it. Black Templar gene-seed would be Imperial Fist Legion gene-seed, but not Imperial Fist Chapter gene-seed. You could make that explicit:

 

"The gene-seed of the Shenandoah Knights is that of the Imperial Fists Legion and they share many of the same traits of that chapter. While the chapter claims ancestry of the Imperial Fists, it has been noted that tThe chapter shares some personality traits with the Black Templars and claim their first generation's gene-seed came from Black Templar tithes to Terra."

 

Vagueness can be your friend. Much concrete information gets lost overtime in 40k even for, or especially for, well established chapters. Fact becomes accepted myth and different organizations may have contrary ideas about what happened. In my opinion, the important part for chapter design is what the chapter tells itself (rather than something necessarily being true) because that will influence the chapter's behavior. It can also set up interesting nature/nurture quirks or conflicts if you (the writer) go in knowing an actual truth which is not what the chapter believes.


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#20
Gamiel

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@ Grey Hunter Ydalir: maybe veto was the wrong word to use. What I was getting at was that when I previously did this IA and had the chapter's gene-seed coming from the Black Templars, there were numerous comments that as the Templar were a chapter from the Imperial Fists then by extension any chapter that used a successor's gene-seed was an Imperial Fists successor.

 

Then I understand your wordings.

 

If I may, I think you would get what you want and not get some of us confused if you worded it a bit like this: “The Shenandoah Knights are gene-decedents to the Imperial Fist through the Black Templars, and have kept much of their Black Templars forbearers ways.”


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#21
gripschi

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One Note from me:

As Said before me, dont Focus to much in there origin, Go maybe with a cadre of Black Templars teaching the First Generation

And be Sure If you want the Ancestor explizit BT, in my Eyes its fine to differ TableTop and Lore.

You can still build a fanatic Crusader Chapter without be a Copy of the BT.

Pick some Traits you Like, as example unique Formations or preferes Wargear.

#22
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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Yeah, it can get a bit confusing depending on format or context, when gene-seed and primarch are used interchangeably. Here's one Liber template, for example:

 

 

 

Founding <<number or year/millennium of founding>> Progenitor Legion <<Name of Legion [<<name of direct predecessor>>]>> Known Descendants <<names of any known descendants>> Homeworld <<name of homeworld>> Allegiance <<Loyalist, Traitor, or Renegade>>

And it uses a format which clearly separates out the gene-seed's legion roots from the direct chapter predecessor which provided the gene-seed used to make the new chapter. The other template (resembles the one you used) leaves it up to the writer to figure out how to phrase it. Black Templar gene-seed would be Imperial Fist Legion gene-seed, but not Imperial Fist Chapter gene-seed. You could make that explicit:

 

"The gene-seed of the Shenandoah Knights is that of the Imperial Fists Legion and they share many of the same traits of that chapter. While the chapter claims ancestry of the Imperial Fists, it has been noted that tThe chapter shares some personality traits with the Black Templars and claim their first generation's gene-seed came from Black Templar tithes to Terra."

 

Vagueness can be your friend. Much concrete information gets lost overtime in 40k even for, or especially for, well established chapters. Fact becomes accepted myth and different organizations may have contrary ideas about what happened. In my opinion, the important part for chapter design is what the chapter tells itself (rather than something necessarily being true) because that will influence the chapter's behavior. It can also set up interesting nature/nurture quirks or conflicts if you (the writer) go in knowing an actual truth which is not what the chapter believes.

 

 

Perfectly put, 100%


The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#23
Sergeant Lowe

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"The gene-seed of the Shenandoah Knights is that of the Imperial Fists Legion and they share many of the same traits of that chapter. While the chapter claims ancestry of the Imperial Fists, it has been noted that tThe chapter shares some personality traits with the Black Templars and claim their first generation's gene-seed came from Black Templar tithes to Terra."

 

I like the way this sounds


http://www.bolterand...-wip/?p=5623232 - The Shenandoah Knights
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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Black Templars, Imperial Fists, Successors, WIP, 25th founding

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