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The Grail Wardens: a Liber Astartes Group Project

Space Marine Order Grail Group Project

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#1
Doctor Perils

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A Liber Astartes Group Project

 
This thread collects the main discussions surrounding the Liber Astartes Group Project concerning the so-called “Grail Wardens” – an alliance of several chapters descending from the Blood Angels formed around the goal of protecting the artefact known as the “Grail” – as well as their opponents, both within the Imperium and without.
We shall aim on keeping this first post updated, though sometimes these may be rather sporadic.

 
Introduction

There are three main factions that take part in this project: the Grail Wardens (sometimes also called the Red Crusaders), the Imperial faction, and the Chaos faction.
 
The Astartes that would one day become known as the Grail Wardens once lead the Red Crusade against secessionist forces in the aftermath of the Nova Terra Interregnum and the Age of Apostasy.
 
During this campaign, they encountered a strong Daemonic presence on the Cardinal World of Golgotha, entities that had corrupted a large portion of the population of the world, and threatened to spread its influence to the rest of the Byzantyne Sector. With effort, the participants in the Red Crusade finally beat back the Daemonic forces, and a conclave of Librarians of the chapters succeeded in closing the Golgothane Rift, empowering a strange artefact known only as the Grail in order to bind it in that state.
 
However, the war on Golgotha was not won without cost. A full Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes was immolated to save the lives of the uncounted billions and trillions of the inhabitants of the sector, and all of the Chief Librarians perished during the ritual of binding. Countless more casualties were suffered by the Red Crusaders, not only within the ranks of the Space Marines, but also of the allied forces, including several great heroes of the Questoris Familia.
 
In order for these sacrifices to not be worthless, the remaining Chapter Masters of the Red Crusaders came together and swore a pact of protection of the Grail, as they knew that – should the artefact fall into the wrong hands – it could become an unstoppable weapon against the Imperium. Librarians and Sanguinary Priests of the chapters witnessed the oath, and bound it within the very blood of these Chapter Masters, so that it could never be forgotten by themselves or their heirs.
 
And thus were born the Grail Wardens, not only an alliance of chapters of the Adeptus Astartes, but also a brotherhood of warriors, sworn to protect the Imperium, through the protection of a single Relic. The Temple Guard, the innermost circle of protectors of the Grail, counted only {12} Astartes, spiritual successors of the original librarians who sealed the Golgothane Rift: they were the only ones to be allowed to witness the Grail's true form.
 
 
Centuries, passed; Millenia even, and the Grail Wardens stood firm in the face of adversity: three times they threw back the assaults of Eldar Corsairs; they withstood an Ork Waaagh with casualties of three men; they defeated the invasion of the renegade Lord Cinderscar the Decaying…
 
How could they have known that the canker had been in their midst even when they were created?
 
It is the beginning of the 38th Millenium, and the Grail Wardens have had five centuries of calm. Though they certainly can't be considered to have been considered lax, at the least they let their guard down. It seems that this was enough for certain members of the brotherhood to start listening to whispers hidden deep inside their souls and their blood. And, from one day to the next, the Grail disappeared, the Temple Guard exterminated, and only a handful of the Order of the Grail Wardens surviving a vicious attack from the {Chaos Warband}, aided by certain traitors within the Order.
 
Within a few months, the Chapter Masters of the Grail Wardens had convened to discuss their course of action. None denied the primordial importance of recovering the Grail, as its absence on Golgotha could spell the end of the Byzantane Sector; however, the high officers could not decide on a plan. Some, like the Sanguinary Crusaders and the Knights Revenant advocated a massed military campaign against all the historical foes of Golgotha, a second Red Crusade; others, such as the Red Sentinels, thought that a more prudent course of action would be painstaking research of the facts, and a more focused hunt.
 
All debate was ended when the last Chapter Master of the convocation arrived: as the doors to the meeting room were pushed open, all were ready to greet their cousin of the Knights Resplendent. However, only shouts would cross their lips, as they discovered not only that he was accompanied by his honour guard, but also that all of them had grown atrocious mutations: the full extent of the Knights Resplendent's treachery finally revealed, the Chapter Masters reached for their weapons...

The tragic combat was over in minutes, but during that short period {3} of their kin where dead. Though the Knights' trap was ultimately unsuccessful, neither were any captured to be questioned, and the Lord of the Knights had teleported back off the planet. Outside the doors, the Masters discovered hundreds more of their warriors dead, and their respective fleets had taken damage: though the chapters were far from crippled, the brotherhood had been sundered.

{}


Three main factions are part of this project: the Grail Wardens, the Chaos Faction and the Imperials.
Grail Wardens

Line of {a}
- Sanguinary Crusaders

Line of {b}
- Carmine Cardinals (ext)
- Red Sentinels
- Silver Sons (ext)
- Crimson Host (Imperial – Crimson Cohort)

line of {c}
- Knights Revenant
- Knights Resplendent (Chaos)

Line of {d}
- Archangels
- {Crimson Knights}

Chaos Faction

- Knights Resplendent
- {The other warband}
- The Confederacy of Mahkhg'Gtahvedd

Imperial Faction

- Order of the Abyss
- House Valcorian
- Crimson Cohort 
 
 
 
Timeline

Here's a little pseudo-timeline:
  • A set of chapters conquer a sector, where they find a Warp Rift
    • This campaign is called the Red Crusade
  • Together, they have a lot of trouble stopping the Daemons coming back in, so a set of Librarians forge an artefact that shuts the rift, thanks to a special ritual. (or else an ancient xenos artefact)
  • This artefact is the Grail (name still to be found), where the chapter masters and highest ranked veterans of the chapters pour a drop of their blood, to seal the gate.
  • This ritual also serves as a blood oath, meaning that all descendents of the oath-swearers are honour bound to protect the Grail and the sector, no matter the cost.
  • to protect this grail, the chapters each send a squad (at least), but only the highest ranking members of these "Grail Wardens" are permitted inside the temple where the Grail is kept, as a security measure basically.
  • Millenia go by where there the different chapters are all doing their thing
  • up until the moment where a massive chaos incursion attacks that sector, with the specific goal of opening the warp rift.
  • They are further aided by traitors within the Grail Wardens.
  • The remains of the first chapters and their descendent chapters (since they are of the same "blood") return to the sector in order to defend it, but they find everything in tatters. (this might be around M38)
  • they then launch a crusade to recover the grail
  • A quick and rough outline of what's been decided smile.png Please tell me if I've forgotten anything, and I'll change it in the first post.
     
    Minigiant's updated Timeline

    Spoiler

     
    Arkangilos's Plot Summary


     

    So far, we have the Red Crusade (or whatever we end up calling it. Red Crusade is fine, or something different is fine).
     
    Towards the end of the crusade, Librarians of the Sanguinary Crusaders, Carmine Cardinals, Crimson Knights, and Knights Resplendent sacrifice themselves to seal a breach in real space that daemons and chaos used to manifest and launch an invasion.
     
    In doing so, an object was made the vessel for their souls, and was placed into the handle of a grail. The chapters involved all poured in their blood, as an oath that they would always protect it (or maybe it's the blood of the librarians?). 
     
    However, the artefact attracted unwanted attention, and corrupted the wildlife on the world it resided on. Raiders, mutants, off world warbands etc would attack to try and steal the grail. The chapters therefore each sent a squad to protect it. That would be half a company. 
     
    Also, there would be a Sanguinary Priest, a chaplain, and a librarian (or more than one?) to help watch for taint.
     
     
    Years later, for whatever reason, and unknown to us (in universe), the Knights Resplendent turned. They either stole the grail, or helped someone else steal the grail. All defenders were killed.
     
    The Sanguinary Crusaders (and the other surviving founders) set out to bring in the blood line of the chapters that are dead, in order to fulfil the blood oaths.
     
    And now we are at the campaign.
     
    The OpFor would be chaos warbands and armies, and two notable war bands that are leading them: The Knights Resplendent and the Black Hands. And anything else that poured out from the breach in warp and space.

    Other Brainstorming

    Spoiler

     
    Members and Associated Forces

    Grail Wardens
    Spoiler
    Spoiler
    Spoiler
    Spoiler
    Spoiler

    Chaos Faction

    And in the opposite court :
    • SlaveToDarkness, and the Knights Resplendent
    Spoiler
    • Common project: a Dark Mechanicus army.
    Imperial Faction

    Other contributors :
    • Kelborn and [a Knight Household]
    Spoiler
    Spoiler

     
    Older Brainstorming

    Spoiler

Edited by Lord Thørn, 22 June 2016 - 10:31 PM.

sml_gallery_29004_12090_3983.pnggallery_77459_13226_2824.png The War Wolves - Previously known as Lord Thørn

#2
Olis

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Seems like a good foundation to start a group project, I think. I may or may not want my own Red Sentinels to participate (keeping it as a BA affair, apparently :P ), I don't know yet. 


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#3
Cèsar de Quart

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It's best, then, if we leave the nature of the Grail unexplained, "Codex: Necrons" style. 

 

The Lady of the Lake in Albion points my Knights into the direction she wants them to look at, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily an Eldar artifact. If could be an even older device, Necron or older in nature. Kind of like the Pharos in Calth, which if I remember correctly, was older than the Eldar and, supposedly, attracted the Tyrannids towards Macragge.

 

Old prophecies and chapter myths talk about the Grail and its abilities, and signs of its existence have been found in several worlds (which also would explain why are there several worlds with similar Arthurian-themed cultures). These different Chapters have stumbled upon them at various points of their history (foundation or otherwise) and taken to heart their meaning, interpreted in various ways, etc.

 

I think my own is the only Chapter that's not a scion of Sanguinius, which makes the coherence of the idea a bit flimsy, but maybe we can bring this into the story too. Since my Chapter is not familiar with the whole idea of Sanguinius' Blood and the Chalices of the Blood Angels, it's understandable that they have developed their own ideas and interpretations on the meaning of the Grail, much more metaphorical, also skewed by the occasional oracles from the Lady of the Lake, who has her own agenda.

 

I can imagine the Chapters first meeting and the discussions about whose myth is the correct one.



#4
Doctor Perils

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Seems like a good foundation to start a group project, I think. I may or may not want my own Red Sentinels to participate (keeping it as a BA affair, apparently tongue.png ), I don't know yet. 

 

I might not have been clear, but the point is that it shouldn't be confined to BA, since at least one of the members already present is from another Primarch.

 

We'd be happy to have you smile.png , honoured in fact! Shall I add you to the roster ?

 

But I think it would also be a good idea to keep it a rather limited affair, no more than 10 participants (I'd even be inclined to say less). What does everybody else feel about this ?

 

 

It's best, then, if we leave the nature of the Grail unexplained, "Codex: Necrons" style. 

 

The Lady of the Lake in Albion points my Knights into the direction she wants them to look at, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily an Eldar artifact. If could be an even older device, Necron or older in nature. Kind of like the Pharos in Calth, which if I remember correctly, was older than the Eldar and, supposedly, attracted the Tyrannids towards Macragge.

 

Old prophecies and chapter myths talk about the Grail and its abilities, and signs of its existence have been found in several worlds (which also would explain why are there several worlds with similar Arthurian-themed cultures). These different Chapters have stumbled upon them at various points of their history (foundation or otherwise) and taken to heart their meaning, interpreted in various ways, etc.

 

I think my own is the only Chapter that's not a scion of Sanguinius, which makes the coherence of the idea a bit flimsy, but maybe we can bring this into the story too. Since my Chapter is not familiar with the whole idea of Sanguinius' Blood and the Chalices of the Blood Angels, it's understandable that they have developed their own ideas and interpretations on the meaning of the Grail, much more metaphorical, also skewed by the occasional oracles from the Lady of the Lake, who has her own agenda.

 

I can imagine the Chapters first meeting and the discussions about whose myth is the correct one.

 

I don't think it's a problem having different chapters, descendants of Sanguinius would probably just be more attracted to this quest (for obvious reasons), which translates into more BA chapters taking part.

In fairness, I don't even think we need to limit it to Space Marines, we could also have Imperial Knights (or even crusader houses, like the ones you often see with Inquisitors), that kind of thing.

 

 

EDIT: I'm having trouble finding a way to deal with those blood angels that fall to the red thirst or the black rage. Has anyone got an idea ? Does anybody know how they do it with the Deathwatch ?


Edited by Lord Thørn, 04 September 2015 - 12:29 PM.

sml_gallery_29004_12090_3983.pnggallery_77459_13226_2824.png The War Wolves - Previously known as Lord Thørn

#5
Olis

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Seems like a good foundation to start a group project, I think. I may or may not want my own Red Sentinels to participate (keeping it as a BA affair, apparently tongue.png ), I don't know yet.

 
I might not have been clear, but the point is that it shouldn't be confined to BA, since at least one of the members already present is from another Primarch.
 
We'd be happy to have you smile.png , honoured in fact! Shall I add you to the roster ?
 
But I think it would also be a good idea to keep it a rather limited affair, no more than 10 participants (I'd even be inclined to say less). What does everybody else feel about this ?

 

Put me down as a 'maybe' for now. I'm still being indecisive about it. :P
 

EDIT: I'm having trouble finding a way to deal with those blood angels that fall to the red thirst or the black rage. Has anyone got an idea ? Does anybody know how they do it with the Deathwatch ?

 

Well, the Red Sentinels were created around the idea that they'd strap their frothers to bikes and land speeders, ergo borrowing elements of the DA codex (it was part of a thought exercise). Perhaps if you're stuck for an idea, you could use that idea as a place holder.


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#6
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Seems like a good foundation to start a group project, I think. I may or may not want my own Red Sentinels to participate (keeping it as a BA affair, apparently tongue.png ), I don't know yet. 

 

I might not have been clear, but the point is that it shouldn't be confined to BA, since at least one of the members already present is from another Primarch.

 

We'd be happy to have you smile.png , honoured in fact! Shall I add you to the roster ?

 

But I think it would also be a good idea to keep it a rather limited affair, no more than 10 participants (I'd even be inclined to say less). What does everybody else feel about this ?

 

 

It's best, then, if we leave the nature of the Grail unexplained, "Codex: Necrons" style. 

 

The Lady of the Lake in Albion points my Knights into the direction she wants them to look at, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily an Eldar artifact. If could be an even older device, Necron or older in nature. Kind of like the Pharos in Calth, which if I remember correctly, was older than the Eldar and, supposedly, attracted the Tyrannids towards Macragge.

 

Old prophecies and chapter myths talk about the Grail and its abilities, and signs of its existence have been found in several worlds (which also would explain why are there several worlds with similar Arthurian-themed cultures). These different Chapters have stumbled upon them at various points of their history (foundation or otherwise) and taken to heart their meaning, interpreted in various ways, etc.

 

I think my own is the only Chapter that's not a scion of Sanguinius, which makes the coherence of the idea a bit flimsy, but maybe we can bring this into the story too. Since my Chapter is not familiar with the whole idea of Sanguinius' Blood and the Chalices of the Blood Angels, it's understandable that they have developed their own ideas and interpretations on the meaning of the Grail, much more metaphorical, also skewed by the occasional oracles from the Lady of the Lake, who has her own agenda.

 

I can imagine the Chapters first meeting and the discussions about whose myth is the correct one.

 

I don't think it's a problem having different chapters, descendants of Sanguinius would probably just be more attracted to this quest (for obvious reasons), which translates into more BA chapters taking part.

In fairness, I don't even think we need to limit it to Space Marines, we could also have Imperial Knights (or even crusader houses, like the ones you often see with Inquisitors), that kind of thing.

 

 

EDIT: I'm having trouble finding a way to deal with those blood angels that fall to the red thirst or the black rage. Has anyone got an idea ? Does anybody know how they do it with the Deathwatch ?

 

well my Archangels downright *BLAM* them, but im guessing you are looking for a more effective solution? 


The Archangels: Scions of Sanguinious striving for perfection

 

The Impure: Not even the transhuman physiology of the Space Marines can save you from the zombie plague

 

The Silent Laughter: The road to damnation is paved with the best intentions 

 

 

 

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#7
Doctor Perils

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EDIT: I'm having trouble finding a way to deal with those blood angels that fall to the red thirst or the black rage. Has anyone got an idea ? Does anybody know how they do it with the Deathwatch ?

 

Well, the Red Sentinels were created around the idea that they'd strap their frothers to bikes and land speeders, ergo borrowing elements of the DA codex (it was part of a thought exercise). Perhaps if you're stuck for an idea, you could use that idea as a place holder.

 

No prob' !

 

for the Red Thirst and Black Rage, I was essentially thinking along the lines of how they keep it secret from the non Blood Angel successors. Otherwise, the Idea could be workable, but that's dependent on how we end up organising the Order: if there are actual troops and units, then that would be possible; if there are only going to be a handful of Knights in the Order at one time, then a Death Company (even if they're bikers) will be much more complicated to put in place.


sml_gallery_29004_12090_3983.pnggallery_77459_13226_2824.png The War Wolves - Previously known as Lord Thørn

#8
Arkangilos

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I'll have to check when I get home (I'm sure it's mentioned in the Death Watch book). That's why I'm more in favor of it being a blood angel thing, though. At least for the order.
Another benefit to that is that the Grail can be a synonym for the cure.

As it stands, I don't see a reason for us to work together in a long term way.

When we create something like this, we need to answer a few questions:

Who is involved?
Why are they involved?
Why are they working together?
Why would they willingly drain their resources to another organization when they can just send their own companies or detachment, with the benefit that whenever they find it, they don't have to share it? (I feel this one is important, because who keeps the Grail? Think about it, if we do find the Grail. And it is powerful, or a potential cure or could lead to it, why would we let anyone else have it? Especially a non-Blood Angel. This will potentially crush long term relationships).

We need something more in common than a quest, because *all* chapters are likely to go on a quest for a powerful relic of it pops up.

I'm also not in favor of other armies joining in. Knights and regiments that have a tradition of working with our chapters would be fine, but the more we include, the more complicated it gets. If anything, other armies should be seen as "rivals" to our quest. Meaning they are there, but we want to beat them to it. This isn't a campaign of conquest or defense, we have specific goals regarding artifacts that we want, artifacts we don't want to share.

Well, about to clock in to work, so i will add more later.

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#9
Doctor Perils

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I'll have to check when I get home (I'm sure it's mentioned in the Death Watch book). That's why I'm more in favor of it being a blood angel thing, though. At least for the order.
Another benefit to that is that the Grail can be a synonym for the cure.

As it stands, I don't see a reason for us to work together in a long term way.
 

 

Great synthesis of the important questions to answer.

 

I was avoiding limiting it to blood angels, because I didn't want to push Cesar out, and I didn't want to force him to take Blood Angels as a Primogenitor. Aye, just BAs would be simpler, but let's wait and see.

 

As you say, there is nothing that obliges us to make it a permanent order, and there is nothing forcing the participants to stay in the Order. I know that when the Crimson Host become the Crimson Cohort, they are going to leave this alliance.

 

I had had the idea of the Imperial Knights in the order because of Questoris, but I think I like your idea of having them as rivals better. A special Imperial Knight House whose purpose is to seek the Grail (for some reason), but who are rivals of this Order, could be pretty fun to develop smile.png (I'll add this, and the questions, to the first post)


sml_gallery_29004_12090_3983.pnggallery_77459_13226_2824.png The War Wolves - Previously known as Lord Thørn

#10
Olis

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if there are only going to be a handful of Knights in the Order at one time, then a Death Company (even if they're bikers) will be much more complicated to put in place.

 

How about... if your Crimson Host treat bikes as 'steeds'? It'd make for an interesting dynamic in how they act and what they see. Just a thought. ;)  


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#11
Arkangilos

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As you say, there is nothing that obliges us to make it a permanent order, and there is nothing forcing the participants to stay in the Order. I know that when the Crimson Host become the Crimson Cohort, they are going to leave this alliance.

But the thing is, there is no reason to make it in the first place. We are literally doing what all chapters do.

The idea behind what I suggested was that we found the artifact, but decided it was better to keep it away from our chapters. Then the order has an actual, tangible purpose. This also leaves room for future campaigns together as honor bound brothers.

The reason I suggested it turn into Sir P's chapter is because when he created his DiY that is exactly what he said he wanted: a chapter created specifically to watch over something. The problem is, as you said, it is limiting so Cesar would have to change or lose out. So it is definitely a throw away idea.

The order is not, though. If it has to consist non blood Angel successors than I maintain the relic should still be found.

Otherwise I would say the Grail is the cure, and the order is created to search for it.

*edit*
Unless the order has a secret hidden part that misleads the non blood angel chapters. Being mostly the children of Sanguinius, it was created for finding a cure, but they manipulated the non children because of whatever advantage. Only the children of Sanguinius know the truth.

Edited by Arkangilos, 04 September 2015 - 01:30 PM.

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#12
Doctor Perils

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if there are only going to be a handful of Knights in the Order at one time, then a Death Company (even if they're bikers) will be much more complicated to put in place.

 

How about... if your Crimson Host treat bikes as 'steeds'? It'd make for an interesting dynamic in how they act and what they see. Just a thought. msn-wink.gif

 

 

In fairness, that's pretty much what I'd had in mind. I'm going to try and make them resemble the Scythians (as the White Scars are the Mongolians) biggrin.png I haven't written much on them yet, but most of the chapter is generally going to fight as a unified horde (I think): overkill, I know, but I thought it could be interesting to see... That's why I asked for them to be successors of your Red Sentinels, since you have a bit of a mechanised /Mad Max vibe, which I thought worked better than being directly descended from the Blood Angels.

 

I was thinking of the "Grail Knights/Wardens" though when I wrote that line, not about the Crimson Host smile.png

 

 

 

As you say, there is nothing that obliges us to make it a permanent order, and there is nothing forcing the participants to stay in the Order. I know that when the Crimson Host become the Crimson Cohort, they are going to leave this alliance.

But the thing is, there is no reason to make it in the first place. We are literally doing what all chapters do.

The idea behind what I suggested was that we found the artifact, but decided it was better to keep it away from our chapters. Then the order has an actual, tangible purpose. This also leaves room for future campaigns together as honor bound brothers.

The reason I suggested it turn into Sir P's chapter is because when he created his DiY that is exactly what he said he wanted: a chapter created specifically to watch over something. The problem is, as you said, it is limiting so Cesar would have to change or lose out. So it is definitely a throw away idea.

The order is not, though. If it has to consist non blood Angel successors than I maintain the relic should still be found.

Otherwise I would say the Grail is the cure, and the order is created to search for it.

*edit*
Unless the order has a secret hidden part that misleads the non blood angel chapters. Being mostly the children of Sanguinius, it was created for finding a cure, but they manipulated the non children because of whatever advantage. Only the children of Sanguinius know the truth.

 

 

Possibly, I was thinking that, since the Chapters have a common purpose, that they could act together on it.

The edited idea is also quite possible.

 

We'll have to see what others think of it first though.


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#13
Olis

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I was thinking of the "Grail Knights/Wardens" though when I wrote that line, not about the Crimson Host smile.png

 

Ah. Yeah, I should have figured that out. Oh well. :P


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#14
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You do know there is a renegade Slaaneshi warband of Blood Angel sucsessor origin that is also looking for the Grail? Just sayin ;) :P


Unbearable, isn't it? The suffering of strangers, the agony of friends. There is a secret song at the centre of the world, and its sound is like razors through flesh.

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#15
Doctor Perils

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Coool. Or not ? I was not aware, can you give me a link or a reference please ?


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#16
Olis

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You do know there is a renegade Slaaneshi warband of Blood Angel sucsessor origin that is also looking for the Grail? Just sayin msn-wink.giftongue.png

 

You mean your own guys? Sounds like we've found our Dick Dastardly... :P


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#17
Slave to Darkness

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I have just decided to make my renegades Blood Angel descendants, as I have used a few Blood Angel bits, and I wanted to be involved *lip quivvers* I like what you guys have goin on here, think you all have a good thing going. Wouldnt the threat of Chaos kinda be a good motivation for your guys??

 

As for when your boys turn into dribbling frothers, couldnt you do what Sanguinius did back in the day, separate them from anybody who dont know of the curse and put a bullet in their head? Have them listed as KIA?


Unbearable, isn't it? The suffering of strangers, the agony of friends. There is a secret song at the centre of the world, and its sound is like razors through flesh.

gallery_29004_9303_22505.png

Blog - Gates of Helvete

"If you mean, "Are we all going to get killed?" Yes. Clearly, Guilliman is about to make yet another gargantuan effort to move his drinks cabinet six inches closer to the Cicatrix." Captain Blackadder


 


#18
Doctor Perils

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Welcome to the team, STD! (huh.png) As long as the others are ok with it of course, but I think it's a great idea !

 

We'd have to know if you started the quest on your own, or if your chapter was an old member who turned traitor ?

Also, Slaaneshi enemies could further tie in to a possible link to Eldar probably ?

 

What's your warband name ?


sml_gallery_29004_12090_3983.pnggallery_77459_13226_2824.png The War Wolves - Previously known as Lord Thørn

#19
Sir Perfluous

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First off - wow. I had no idea that this would end up being so big! I mean, really, I turn my back for two days and all of this happens! smile.png This is looking awesome, and I'm proud to be a part of it. I've been away from the B&C for a bit, doing actual real world things (they're so inconvenient, aren't they), so it seems I've got some catching up to do! Still, looking great. I did find some time, though, to sneak in a bit of idea doodling for the organisation of my chapter (I've decided that the Codex can get lost tongue.png), so expect that at some point on my thread. Though I still can't think of a suitable name... but here is not the place. I love the idea of the ancient order of reluctant allies sworn to keep the Grail (whatever the Grail actually is) a secret, with various crusades going on across the stars. Awesome stuff. 

 

I have just decided to make my renegades Blood Angel descendants, as I have used a few Blood Angel bits, and I wanted to be involved *lip quivvers* I like what you guys have goin on here, think you all have a good thing going. Wouldnt the threat of Chaos kinda be a good motivation for your guys??

 

Welcome aboard, if aboard is you want to be!. I did suggest, actually, over on my thread, the possibility that Chaos could have a hand in whatever is going on. My original idea was for Lord Thorn's Crimson Host/Cohort to be the ones that turned to Chaos and broke away, but that was, as it turned out, incompatible with his ideas. If the renegades were loyal but then corrupted by the allure of the Grail and are now after it (whatever it is) for the power it promises, not because it's really holy, that might work. 


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#20
Doctor Perils

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Welcome aboard, if aboard is you want to be!. I did suggest, actually, over on my thread, the possibility that Chaos could have a hand in whatever is going on. My original idea was for Lord Thorn's Crimson Host/Cohort to be the ones that turned to Chaos and broke away, but that was, as it turned out, incompatible with his ideas. If the renegades were loyal but then corrupted by the allure of the Grail and are now after it (whatever it is) for the power it promises, not because it's really holy, that might work. 

 

Yeah, sorry, I definitely want to keep my chapter morphing theme, and the fact that they resist the temptation... Oooops, and there I was going to spoil my own story ! tongue.png

 

Solution for the Crimson Knights ?

 

I was just wondering about a simpler way of doing this, but without pushing out Cesar's Imperial Fists successors, and I think I've found it, as long as he's in agreement: we could simply say that everyone believed his chapter were Blood Angels successors, and that they had managed to find a cure (possibly because his members had drunk from the grail), but then, much later on, it was discovered that there had been a mix up, much like the Soul Drinkers were believed to be Imperial Fists successors, but then it was found that they weren't (and it just seems so obvious that they are blood angels successors...)

 

After millenia of fighting side by side, the Crimson Knights don't want to betray the chapters they believed were brothers, so they pinkyswear they won't say anything, and continue the search...

 

How does that sound ?

 

Common Ancestor ?

 

Could all our chapters have a common ancestor, who were charged with guarding the Grail (secret task) - the Grail Wardens. They are then destroyed, by Slaaneshi/Eldar, and so the Grail is stolen and most documentation about it lost to the mists of time.

 

However, their genestocks on Mars were incredibly extensive (for some as yet unknown reason ?). One survivor escapes, but he is mortally wounded and his memories are scattered (he could have been tortured, and his mind is now broken for instance).

 

Because of the very high number of geneseed, and its apparent purity, the High Lords of Terra decree that three/four chapters will be created from this geneseed.

 

Years after their founding, each (or simply one) of these chapters is visited by the mad space marine, who tells them of this "Grail" and how it was their ancestor's duty to guard over it. Since the ancestor chapter is no more, they are honour bound to search for it and restore it. The successors are inclined to ignore him, but through jiggery pokery, they find that he is exempt from the red thirst or the black rage, even though he is obviously a Scion of Sanginius.

 

Because of this, the successors get together, and decide to create an order that will be the spiritual successor to the Grail Wardens.

Over time, some chapters leave, create new successors, or turn rogue, etc. Also, some of the chapters have this special quest used to manipulate them.

 

 

 

This doesn't necessarily answer all of Arkangilos's questions, but it could answer some. As he says, there is not necessarily much reason for the different chapters to work too much together on this, so I'd see it more as a select few from each chapter that pledge themselves and go on quests on their own (but sharing all their findings with their colleagues). As soon as they find what they think is a good clue, but there are pesky enemies on the way, they can call to the closest chapter of the Alliance to help them.

These few decide to go on the quest because they believe they can cure all of the sons of Sanguinius, for the sheer nobility of it all, for personal glory... Whichever is pertinent to them.

I think this format would allow us to link all our chapters together coherently, but give us enough leeway to be free to do what we want in each chapter.

 

What do you guys think ?


sml_gallery_29004_12090_3983.pnggallery_77459_13226_2824.png The War Wolves - Previously known as Lord Thørn

#21
Slave to Darkness

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i have been thinking of a good idea fluffwise for my warband, I love the idea of the Grail being the reason or part of the reason why they turn, think I'm gonna run with that idea and see what I can do with it. As for a name I am undecided atm,, got a few ideas but not settled on one yet. 


Unbearable, isn't it? The suffering of strangers, the agony of friends. There is a secret song at the centre of the world, and its sound is like razors through flesh.

gallery_29004_9303_22505.png

Blog - Gates of Helvete

"If you mean, "Are we all going to get killed?" Yes. Clearly, Guilliman is about to make yet another gargantuan effort to move his drinks cabinet six inches closer to the Cicatrix." Captain Blackadder


 


#22
Doctor Perils

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Sir Perfluous had come up with the Knights Resplendant, but doesn't seem set on that. I think that that name honestly sounds extremely Slaaneshi (just one step from Resplendent to Perfection...) You could probably see with him about using that name if it pleases you ?


sml_gallery_29004_12090_3983.pnggallery_77459_13226_2824.png The War Wolves - Previously known as Lord Thørn

#23
Slave to Darkness

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Aye if he doesn't mind, Sounds better than Knights Splendiferous or Knights Splendorous, I should really stay away from the onlne Thesaurus when sleepy,  end up learning silly words that I try to fit into everyday use :D


Unbearable, isn't it? The suffering of strangers, the agony of friends. There is a secret song at the centre of the world, and its sound is like razors through flesh.

gallery_29004_9303_22505.png

Blog - Gates of Helvete

"If you mean, "Are we all going to get killed?" Yes. Clearly, Guilliman is about to make yet another gargantuan effort to move his drinks cabinet six inches closer to the Cicatrix." Captain Blackadder


 


#24
Sir Perfluous

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Aye if he doesn't mind, Sounds better than Knights Splendiferous or Knights Splendorous, I should really stay away from the onlne Thesaurus when sleepy,  end up learning silly words that I try to fit into everyday use biggrin.png

 

If you want it, go ahead. I quite like it, even if it doesn't quite fit my chapter, so it'd be nice to know that it was being used somehow! 


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If Sir Perfluous is too much, I am content with just Perf.


#25
Cèsar de Quart

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Welcome aboard, if aboard is you want to be!. I did suggest, actually, over on my thread, the possibility that Chaos could have a hand in whatever is going on. My original idea was for Lord Thorn's Crimson Host/Cohort to be the ones that turned to Chaos and broke away, but that was, as it turned out, incompatible with his ideas. If the renegades were loyal but then corrupted by the allure of the Grail and are now after it (whatever it is) for the power it promises, not because it's really holy, that might work. 

 

Yeah, sorry, I definitely want to keep my chapter morphing theme, and the fact that they resist the temptation... Oooops, and there I was going to spoil my own story ! tongue.png

 

Solution for the Crimson Knights ?

 

I was just wondering about a simpler way of doing this, but without pushing out Cesar's Imperial Fists successors, and I think I've found it, as long as he's in agreement: we could simply say that everyone believed his chapter were Blood Angels successors, and that they had managed to find a cure (possibly because his members had drunk from the grail), but then, much later on, it was discovered that there had been a mix up, much like the Soul Drinkers were believed to be Imperial Fists successors, but then it was found that they weren't (and it just seems so obvious that they are blood angels successors...)

 

After millenia of fighting side by side, the Crimson Knights don't want to betray the chapters they believed were brothers, so they pinkyswear they won't say anything, and continue the search...

 

How does that sound ?

 

Common Ancestor ?

 

Could all our chapters have a common ancestor, who were charged with guarding the Grail (secret task) - the Grail Wardens. They are then destroyed, by Slaaneshi/Eldar, and so the Grail is stolen and most documentation about it lost to the mists of time.

 

However, their genestocks on Mars were incredibly extensive (for some as yet unknown reason ?). One survivor escapes, but he is mortally wounded and his memories are scattered (he could have been tortured, and his mind is now broken for instance).

 

Because of the very high number of geneseed, and its apparent purity, the High Lords of Terra decree that three/four chapters will be created from this geneseed.

 

Years after their founding, each (or simply one) of these chapters is visited by the mad space marine, who tells them of this "Grail" and how it was their ancestor's duty to guard over it. Since the ancestor chapter is no more, they are honour bound to search for it and restore it. The successors are inclined to ignore him, but through jiggery pokery, they find that he is exempt from the red thirst or the black rage, even though he is obviously a Scion of Sanginius.

 

Because of this, the successors get together, and decide to create an order that will be the spiritual successor to the Grail Wardens.

Over time, some chapters leave, create new successors, or turn rogue, etc. Also, some of the chapters have this special quest used to manipulate them.

 

 

 

This doesn't necessarily answer all of Arkangilos's questions, but it could answer some. As he says, there is not necessarily much reason for the different chapters to work too much together on this, so I'd see it more as a select few from each chapter that pledge themselves and go on quests on their own (but sharing all their findings with their colleagues). As soon as they find what they think is a good clue, but there are pesky enemies on the way, they can call to the closest chapter of the Alliance to help them.

These few decide to go on the quest because they believe they can cure all of the sons of Sanguinius, for the sheer nobility of it all, for personal glory... Whichever is pertinent to them.

I think this format would allow us to link all our chapters together coherently, but give us enough leeway to be free to do what we want in each chapter.

 

What do you guys think ?

 

 

I like this.

 

For three reasons:

 

1- It makes my Chapter's origin more mysterious, and it becomes an integral part of the Chapter: the quest for their origin. The genetic genealogists have a crisis of faith but after a while they get on again with their work, reworking genetic parenthood and trying to link the Chapter's first original heroes to Dorn instead of Sanguinius. This can also be a good link with the Lady of the Lake, who is probably the only one who remembers the reality of the Chaper's origin.

 

2- It can explain some of their divergences from the Codex.

 

3- It makes it easier to link the Chapters together in their search for the Grail.

 

***

 

If none of these solutions work out, I have another Chapter, a Blood Angel successor I made when the BA recieved new cool minis: the Blood Dragons (*working title*, really), wich are based on Dracula lore. Their first Master was Bela Dracul, and were proud of having mastered their Red Thirst to the point of having developed a Battle Meditation technique where all the rage entrapped during the days and weeks of meditation and containment was left off in a spectacular communal battlecry. They were savages on the battlefield, but decent monks outside of it, until they finally exploded in a storm of Black Rage that drove half the Chapter mad during the War of the Commodork's Hat. While in battle, half the Chatper's marines began tearing the Orks apart viciously, and then they turned on everything else. 

 

So maybe these Blood Dragons can work as a substitute?


Edited by Cèsar de Quart, 05 September 2015 - 11:55 AM.