HH Book 46: Ruinstorm

[helterskelter]

Speculation: in Angel exterminatus during the battle simulation game we see perty do his thing. If that is indeed the case why isn't he doing it at terra?

Perturabo engages the Ultramarines, mocking dantioch that he somehow finds out about, polux loses it, is given partial power over ultra fleet and a supermassive space battle occurs, preventing perturabo himself getting to terra, stops the ultras getting to terra in time and reduces their numbers to bring them closer to chapter levels.

This allows sanguinius and the lion to pass.

The lion finds out about something from Curze which sends them off in another direction, which ultimately leads the lion to making several very bad decisions and all the NL are either released or escape. Because space jail is a really boring way for Sevatar to spend the heresy.

We know sang vs demons in space is a thing so that's covered.

[bluntblade]

Perturabo is spoken for: he's with Horus, breaking open the fortress worlds around Terra. Mortarion has assembled all his Legion save for Typhon's host, and is working to find the latter and commit himself to the frontline.

 

My guess and my hope is that we get Traitor warlords coming into play - be those Aximand or the likes of Autilon Skorr from the FW books. As outside bets, perhaps Magnus or Omegon take a hand?

[DogWelder]

 

I really want a MASSIVE space battle here tbh. Maybe the Dark Angel and Ultramarine Fleets covering the Blood Angels as they get to the super secret warp gate thingy or something.

 

Dark Angels and Blood Angles will probably handle a bulk of the heavy ship to ship combat. The Dark Angels have a Gloriana Class Battleship and they should do a bulk of the straight up fighting. They probably like engaging the enemy fleets in close combat and exchanging massive broadsides with their battleships.

 

Ultramarines don't follow the philosophy of using large numbers of dreadnoughts or Battleship-class ships. They usually have a few heavy craft like Battle Barges backed up by large numbers of smaller Strike Cruisers/Hunter Destroyers/Gladius Frigates. That's how they took down Lorgar's Gloriana-class flagship in Betrayar. Drowned it in swarms of smaller ships.

Nope - I will quote Annandale for you:

Replying to @HeritorA

Full-on giant fleet vs giant fleet, no. Not the mission of this story. Ship battles, yes, more than one, but not the main point of the story.

I'm totally with you on space battles Caius Tadius

but sadly GW focused on tabletop armies on the ground, that;s why space and void warfare always went as a secondary addition

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

I was expecting a massive battle like A Baoa Qu in Gundam or the Battle of Coruscant from the Prequels ;-; Oh well, he's certainly going to be putting a lot of effort into something else and I cant wait to see what that is 

[DogWelder]

Speculation: in Angel exterminatus during the battle simulation game we see perty do his thing. If that is indeed the case why isn't he doing it at terra?

Perturabo engages the Ultramarines, mocking dantioch that he somehow finds out about, polux loses it, is given partial power over ultra fleet and a supermassive space battle occurs, preventing perturabo himself getting to terra, stops the ultras getting to terra in time and reduces their numbers to bring them closer to chapter levels.

This allows sanguinius and the lion to pass.

The lion finds out about something from Curze which sends them off in another direction, which ultimately leads the lion to making several very bad decisions and all the NL are either released or escape. Because space jail is a really boring way for Sevatar to spend the heresy.

We know sang vs demons in space is a thing so that's covered.

Dantioch died in Pharos while overloading the alien device and EMPing the Night Lords fleet during the Battle of Pharos.

 

But yes, I am interested in the Ultramarines numbers thing. We know they are by far the largest legion after the Heresy and had to be divided 23 times in order to get to Horus Heresy levels.

 

Since there are about 100K Ultramarines now by doing the math:

 

250K at the start of the Heresy

 

-120k at Calth

-30k in the many other battles during the Shadow Crusade (Astagar, Percepton, Sotha etc.)

[rendingon1+]

Could be interesting... End of IS arc is certainly wort it.

But this cover... can't recall ugliest in the series. Sanguinius looks like a dragqueen (is that a spear of telesto?!), and Lion with his mismatched hair/beard combo... 

[karden00]

 

 

I really want a MASSIVE space battle here tbh.

 

with which traitor legion though?

 

it's an open canvas, so anyhting goes really

 

Perhaps whatever is left of the Word Bearers and the World Eaters?

 

It could explain what happened to the Trisaigon. The last Abyss-class ship unaccounted for. (The Blessed Lady was presumed to be the wreck the Salamanders saw in Deathfire so thats dead. And the Furious Abyss was destroyed thanks to Cestus and his band of misfits).

 

I always wanted to know about that wreck of a Kingship in Deathfire. What makes you believe it was the Blessed Lady? Was there something I missed in a story that indicated it got taken out? 

 

Aaaaaaand why is Guilliman blond?!?!!? He looked so so so good on the cover for Know No Fear and Unremembered Empire...and he had darker hair than that. Don't mind the Lion all Thaaat much, as we've never had a canonical image of him until Angels of Caliban, but Sanguinius....Coulda been better if his hair wasn't curled. 

[b1soul]

EC vs. BA gets my vote...

 

Fabulous purple pretty boys vs. flaming red pretty boys

 

I want to see a Zoolander-style walk-off between Sang and Fulgrim

[Taliesin]

 

I really want a MASSIVE space battle here tbh. Maybe the Dark Angel and Ultramarine Fleets covering the Blood Angels as they get to the super secret warp gate thingy or something.

 

Dark Angels and Blood Angles will probably handle a bulk of the heavy ship to ship combat. The Dark Angels have a Gloriana Class Battleship and they should do a bulk of the straight up fighting. They probably like engaging the enemy fleets in close combat and exchanging massive broadsides with their battleships.

 

Ultramarines don't follow the philosophy of using large numbers of dreadnoughts or Battleship-class ships. They usually have a few heavy craft like Battle Barges backed up by large numbers of smaller Strike Cruisers/Hunter Destroyers/Gladius Frigates. That's how they took down Lorgar's Gloriana-class flagship in Betrayar. Drowned it in swarms of smaller ships.

Nope - I will quote Annandale for you:

Replying to @HeritorA

Full-on giant fleet vs giant fleet, no. Not the mission of this story. Ship battles, yes, more than one, but not the main point of the story.

I'm totally with you on space battles Caius Tadius

but sadly GW focused on tabletop armies on the ground, that;s why space and void warfare always went as a secondary addition

 

 

I am actually really pleased with this. Not interested at all in lengthy void battle descriptions and far more interested in more personal moments of action and drama and dialogue.

 

I also think these epic void battles are just hard to do right and I find it hard to engage with even fairly short descriptions of it. This book may have too much of it as it is. So actually this is what I wanted to hear from Annandale.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Taliesin

[DarkChaplain]

If I want full-on fleet battles I'll re-read Legend of the Galactic Heroes, personally. Thankfully there'll be two more translated to english before the year's over. With Horus Heresy, it rarely is the big battles that I care for and rather, like Taliesin, the drama and dialogue, the small shows of heroisms and betrayal.

[DogWelder]

If I want full-on fleet battles I'll re-read Legend of the Galactic Heroes, personally. Thankfully there'll be two more translated to english before the year's over. With Horus Heresy, it rarely is the big battles that I care for and rather, like Taliesin, the drama and dialogue, the small shows of heroisms and betrayal.

LoGH is good but I kinda prefer settings where destroyers/battleships are not made out of paper mache that can be cut open by fighter craft. Star Wars does the same thing with small teams of fighters taking out huge ships.

 

40k is the only setting where the actual ship to ship combat matters and fighters are an afterthought so I like the space battles here.

[Ascanius]

Speculation: in Angel exterminatus during the battle simulation game we see perty do his thing. If that is indeed the case why isn't he doing it at terra?

 

Maybe he's not better than Rogal Dorn. ;) Or the Emperor . . .

[helterskelter]

 

 

Speculation: in Angel exterminatus during the battle simulation game we see perty do his thing. If that is indeed the case why isn't he doing it at terra?

Maybe he's not better than Rogal Dorn. ;) Or the Emperor . . .

Iron Cage :p

[b1soul]

Dorn intentionally threw his sons into the Iron Cage, knowing they'd get decimated

[HeritorA]

 

 

I really want a MASSIVE space battle here tbh. Maybe the Dark Angel and Ultramarine Fleets covering the Blood Angels as they get to the super secret warp gate thingy or something.

 

Dark Angels and Blood Angles will probably handle a bulk of the heavy ship to ship combat. The Dark Angels have a Gloriana Class Battleship and they should do a bulk of the straight up fighting. They probably like engaging the enemy fleets in close combat and exchanging massive broadsides with their battleships.

 

Ultramarines don't follow the philosophy of using large numbers of dreadnoughts or Battleship-class ships. They usually have a few heavy craft like Battle Barges backed up by large numbers of smaller Strike Cruisers/Hunter Destroyers/Gladius Frigates. That's how they took down Lorgar's Gloriana-class flagship in Betrayar. Drowned it in swarms of smaller ships.

Nope - I will quote Annandale for you:

Replying to @HeritorA

Full-on giant fleet vs giant fleet, no. Not the mission of this story. Ship battles, yes, more than one, but not the main point of the story.

I'm totally with you on space battles Caius Tadius

but sadly GW focused on tabletop armies on the ground, that;s why space and void warfare always went as a secondary addition

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

I was expecting a massive battle like A Baoa Qu in Gundam or the Battle of Coruscant from the Prequels ;-; Oh well, he's certainly going to be putting a lot of effort into something else and I cant wait to see what that is 

 

 

And you WAS NOT ALONE. I do adorne epic battles in space (Baoa Qu indeed) - but it's simply not our luck.

GW models are on 'earth' - soldiers, not ships. So it's obvious that they will be doing ship combat mostly as an afterthought.

 

Could be interesting... End of IS arc is certainly wort it.

But this cover... can't recall ugliest in the series. Sanguinius looks like a dragqueen (is that a spear of telesto?!), and Lion with his mismatched hair/beard combo...

Indeed - the face of Sangy and his posture is like an anime persona from Fate/Zero or whatever. Lion with his mismatched hair/beard combo - I was laughing for a long time.

 

karden00

Why do you think the corpse of the Kingship is a 'Blessed Lady'? It is over Macragge right? So it's 'The Abyss' from the beginning of the HH not the Trisagion or Blessed Lady.

 

b1soul

'I want to see a Zoolander-style walk-off between Sang and Fulgrim' - YESSSSS!

 

Taliesin

'I am actually really pleased with this. Not interested at all in lengthy void battle descriptions and far more interested in more personal moments of action and drama and dialogue.'

- OTHER WAY AROUND. I do like space battles instead of plainly stupid and childish Primarch dialogs from the last 10 books (Crimson emo king included)

 

DarkChaplain

'If I want full-on fleet battles I'll re-read Legend of the Galactic Heroes, personally.' - you read them? Your opinion? (Cause in my humble opinion that's crap of a story and how space battles should never be written)

[DogWelder]

 

 

 

I really want a MASSIVE space battle here tbh. Maybe the Dark Angel and Ultramarine Fleets covering the Blood Angels as they get to the super secret warp gate thingy or something.

 

Dark Angels and Blood Angles will probably handle a bulk of the heavy ship to ship combat. The Dark Angels have a Gloriana Class Battleship and they should do a bulk of the straight up fighting. They probably like engaging the enemy fleets in close combat and exchanging massive broadsides with their battleships.

 

Ultramarines don't follow the philosophy of using large numbers of dreadnoughts or Battleship-class ships. They usually have a few heavy craft like Battle Barges backed up by large numbers of smaller Strike Cruisers/Hunter Destroyers/Gladius Frigates. That's how they took down Lorgar's Gloriana-class flagship in Betrayar. Drowned it in swarms of smaller ships.

Nope - I will quote Annandale for you:

Replying to @HeritorA

Full-on giant fleet vs giant fleet, no. Not the mission of this story. Ship battles, yes, more than one, but not the main point of the story.

I'm totally with you on space battles Caius Tadius

but sadly GW focused on tabletop armies on the ground, that;s why space and void warfare always went as a secondary addition

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

I was expecting a massive battle like A Baoa Qu in Gundam or the Battle of Coruscant from the Prequels ;-; Oh well, he's certainly going to be putting a lot of effort into something else and I cant wait to see what that is 

 

 

And you WAS NOT ALONE. I do adorne epic battles in space (Baoa Qu indeed) - but it's simply not our luck.

GW models are on 'earth' - soldiers, not ships. So it's obvious that they will be doing ship combat mostly as an afterthought.

 

Could be interesting... End of IS arc is certainly wort it.

But this cover... can't recall ugliest in the series. Sanguinius looks like a dragqueen (is that a spear of telesto?!), and Lion with his mismatched hair/beard combo...

Indeed - the face of Sangy and his posture is like an anime persona from Fate/Zero or whatever. Lion with his mismatched hair/beard combo - I was laughing for a long time.

 

karden00

Why do you think the corpse of the Kingship is a 'Blessed Lady'? It is over Macragge right? So it's 'The Abyss' from the beginning of the HH not the Trisagion or Blessed Lady.

 

 

Nope. The wreck the Charbadys found was way out in the outer edges of Ultramar.

[HeritorA]

Caius Tadius

Well they could tow it where - cause Polux in IS said to remove that hulk from the Macragge orbit

[NKCougar]

 

Now that we've seen September's coming soon, shall we assume this is coming in October? Would follow the 2 month pattern

 

http://i.imgur.com/x4QVwHl.jpg

 

 

As Imperium Secundus fails, three primarchs journey into the Ruinstorm in the hope of making it back to Terra.

 

Imperium Secundus lies revealed as a heretical folly. Terra has not fallen, though it remains inaccessible. Sanguinius, Guilliman and the Lion El’Johnson, the primarchs of the Triumvirate, must reach Terra at all costs. They seek to defend the Emperor, and to atone for their sins. But the Ruinstorm, a galaxy-wide maelstrom of chaos, hides the Throneworld from the primarchs. Now the fleets of three Legions depart Macragge, and the primarchs will stop at nothing to overcome the Ruinstorm. Yet an insidious enemy watches their every move, and plots against the weaknesses of the errant sons of the Emperor. Each has his own inner storm, and each marches towards his own ruin

 

 

Over on News & Rumours, A D-B tells us

 

 

 

When we decided on what the Ultramarines will do at the end of the Ruinstorm, like, five years ago, it was the only time I've ever got chills in an HH meeting.

 

I think this'll be a good'un.

and then beautifully rips some guy for a humble opinion

 

Also, from BL Live 2016

Laurie: “Now that Imperium Secundus has been proven to be a folly, Sanguinius, Guilliman and the Lion are trying to find a path through the storms to Terra. Curze is also involved, but not his Legion.”

 

That neckbeard is horrendous. Sanguinius looks pretty ridiculous here as well. It is absolutely zero indication of the book's quality, but I can say for sure that I will most definitely not get a paper copy of this, rather an ebook so that I can avoid looking at it.

[DogWelder]

Caius Tadius

Well they could tow it where - cause Polux in IS said to remove that hulk from the Macragge orbit

 

The wreck was far into the extreme edges of Ultramar's borders. Given that navigation in the ruinstorm was already hard, its unlikely they wasted resources towing the ship that far.

 

It was found amidst a site of several former naval battles and wrecked ships. Not to mention entire companies of Ultramarine bodies mixed in with Word Bearer ones showing that it had been subjected to a mass boarding action by the Ultras and destroyed.

 

The Furious Abyss was destroyed by a boarding action of a few squads of Ultramarines and Space Wolves by contrast.

[HeritorA]

NKCougar

'That neckbeard is horrendous. Sanguinius looks pretty ridiculous here as well. It is absolutely zero indication of the book's quality, but I can say for sure that I will most definitely not get a paper copy of this, rather an ebook so that I can avoid looking at it.' -

definitely. He is like a one particular person from the Fate/Zero with blondi curlies

Also we have mutated Lion who has one color for the hair on a head and the another for his beard, lol

 

 

 

Caius Tadius

Well they could tow it where - cause Polux in IS said to remove that hulk from the Macragge orbit

 

The wreck was far into the extreme edges of Ultramar's borders. Given that navigation in the ruinstorm was already hard, its unlikely they wasted resources towing the ship that far.

 

It was found amidst a site of several former naval battles and wrecked ships. Not to mention entire companies of Ultramarine bodies mixed in with Word Bearer ones showing that it had been subjected to a mass boarding action by the Ultras and destroyed.

 

The Furious Abyss was destroyed by a boarding action of a few squads of Ultramarines and Space Wolves by contrast.

 

And thus WB could have decided to salvage 'Furious Abyss' and sent their brotherhood where. Ultramarines responded and thus a fight in graveyard has started - easy

[DogWelder]

NKCougar

'That neckbeard is horrendous. Sanguinius looks pretty ridiculous here as well. It is absolutely zero indication of the book's quality, but I can say for sure that I will most definitely not get a paper copy of this, rather an ebook so that I can avoid looking at it.' -

definitely. He is like a one particular person from the Fate/Zero with blondi curlies

Also we have mutated Lion who has one color for the hair on a head and the another for his beard, lol

 

 

 

Caius Tadius

Well they could tow it where - cause Polux in IS said to remove that hulk from the Macragge orbit

 

The wreck was far into the extreme edges of Ultramar's borders. Given that navigation in the ruinstorm was already hard, its unlikely they wasted resources towing the ship that far.

 

It was found amidst a site of several former naval battles and wrecked ships. Not to mention entire companies of Ultramarine bodies mixed in with Word Bearer ones showing that it had been subjected to a mass boarding action by the Ultras and destroyed.

 

The Furious Abyss was destroyed by a boarding action of a few squads of Ultramarines and Space Wolves by contrast.

 

And thus WB could have decided to salvage 'Furious Abyss' and sent their brotherhood where. Ultramarines responded and thus a fight in graveyard has started - easy

 

 

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not lol

 

But eh, I would find that to be an uninteresting copout. The Blessed Lady theory is a bit more solid since it wasn't there with the Trisaigon at the Battle of Nuceria, implying it was sent somewhere else into Ultramar.

[HeritorA]

Caius Tadius

For the cover of the 'Ruinstorm' I was sarcastic (tis horrible )

As for the Blessed Lady - sure, it can be it. But Ultramar is a big place - it could have went anywhere. Maybe it's left Ultramar space for good and would reapper only for the Siege of Solar. Cause even through Horus has a lot of ships - it would be really costly to get through Pluto and Saturn and Venus and Luna and up to Terra without something truly 'linebreaking'

[DogWelder]

Caius Tadius

For the cover of the 'Ruinstorm' I was sarcastic (tis horrible )

As for the Blessed Lady - sure, it can be it. But Ultramar is a big place - it could have went anywhere. Maybe it's left Ultramar space for good and would reapper only for the Siege of Solar. Cause even through Horus has a lot of ships - it would be really costly to get through Pluto and Saturn and Venus and Luna and up to Terra without something truly 'linebreaking'

 

 

I suppose. But they have the Trisaigon for that. Plus having the Word Bearers and Ultramarines fight on the Blessed Lady makes for a rather exciting Shadow Crusade Story. Also, I kinda want Horus to use some actual tactics/strategy like he did in the "Vengeful Spirit" novel to break into the Solar System. I don't want him to just pull out some ultra-powerful ships.

[HeritorA]

 

Caius Tadius

For the cover of the 'Ruinstorm' I was sarcastic (tis horrible )

As for the Blessed Lady - sure, it can be it. But Ultramar is a big place - it could have went anywhere. Maybe it's left Ultramar space for good and would reapper only for the Siege of Solar. Cause even through Horus has a lot of ships - it would be really costly to get through Pluto and Saturn and Venus and Luna and up to Terra without something truly 'linebreaking'

 

 

I suppose. But they have the Trisaigon for that. Plus having the Word Bearers and Ultramarines fight on the Blessed Lady makes for a rather exciting Shadow Crusade Story. Also, I kinda want Horus to use some actual tactics/strategy like he did in the "Vengeful Spirit" novel to break into the Solar System. I don't want him to just pull out some ultra-powerful ships.

 

 

Indeed I feel the same.

2 points through:

1) To stop shop of a 'Blessed Lady' type Ultramarines need a really powerful fleet (remember how it all went over Nuceria). To strip some shields to actually start any boarding actions.

2) Solar would be guarded by 3 Primarchs - trick from the 'Luna' would simply not work here. It would be unpleasant and strict  breaking with a lot of warships in addition to some techno-warp virus to shutdown the defences etc.

[DogWelder]

 

 

Caius Tadius

For the cover of the 'Ruinstorm' I was sarcastic (tis horrible )

As for the Blessed Lady - sure, it can be it. But Ultramar is a big place - it could have went anywhere. Maybe it's left Ultramar space for good and would reapper only for the Siege of Solar. Cause even through Horus has a lot of ships - it would be really costly to get through Pluto and Saturn and Venus and Luna and up to Terra without something truly 'linebreaking'

 

 

I suppose. But they have the Trisaigon for that. Plus having the Word Bearers and Ultramarines fight on the Blessed Lady makes for a rather exciting Shadow Crusade Story. Also, I kinda want Horus to use some actual tactics/strategy like he did in the "Vengeful Spirit" novel to break into the Solar System. I don't want him to just pull out some ultra-powerful ships.

 

 

Indeed I feel the same.

2 points through:

1) To stop shop of a 'Blessed Lady' type Ultramarines need a really powerful fleet (remember how it all went over Nuceria). To strip some shields to actually start any boarding actions.

2) Solar would be guarded by 3 Primarchs - trick from the 'Luna' would simply not work here. It would be unpleasant and strict  breaking with a lot of warships in addition to some techno-warp virus to shutdown the defences etc.

 

 

Yes I agree. Although, as I've described in my "Are Battleships actually vulnerable in space combat" topic, there is a theme of Ultramarines taking down mega-battleships such as the Abyss Class and the Gloriana class due to the fact that the Word Bearers often sent these units in without proper escort/support.

 

The Ultramarines would then swarm the ships with lighter craft like Strike Cruisers/Escorts/Destroyers and either board them or take them down with combined firepower. This usually results in horrible casualties but it gets the job done. For example: Guilliman sent 30 of these smaller ships against the Gloriana class which was the flagship of Lorgar at Nuceria and it cost 12 to take it down.

 

Similarly, later on the Nemesis Chapter of the Ultramarines would capture another Word Bearer Gloriana through rapid boarding actions.

[karden00]

Ruinstorm and ADB's little insight are rather exciting! 

Back in the 2nd edition, the only fluff of the UM was that when they got wind of the Heresy, they made all speed for Terra and en route, destroyed a large chaos fleet. 

Maaaaybe that "Chaos-y" fleet wasn't so Chaos-y after all and I Dunno....

Possibilities!